Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

How many experts need to come out and say leaving the CPP is, at best, a very risky idea with a low chance for very modest benefits before Albertans actually accept it?

It’s such a silly idea parroted exclusively by sycophants at this point. Most Albertans don’t want to mess with it, every expert says the UCP is blowing hot air and lying about how great it’s going to be. Hell, Canada’s chief actuary just came out and said Tombe was right about the amount (closer to 20% than the 50+% the UCP is claiming) and you’ve still got the Fraser Institute falling over themselves crying about how they didn’t give an exact percent so it must be over 50% lol.

Leaving the CPP seems to be a position favoured by people who don’t want to deal in fact and logic or aren’t intellectually capable of it. That’s not the kind of people I want making any decisions about anything, but especially not pensions.

It doesn’t take an actuary to estimate Alberta’s CPP share and to know that the UCP’s number is bullsh1t. I’m no accountant, actuary or expert and I simply took Alberta’s population as a percentage of Canada’s (no adjustment for demographics). It was close.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Goriders

No. But if possible I would be in favour of opting out completely and directing the funds the way you wanted. Or having more options available.

Sounds like you only care about yourself. The whole point of the CPP is that it provides some money for retirement for those we weren't born into luck. By giving wealthy the option to opt out, you are just screwing other Canadians more. Look, I get it. Selfishness is good for you and if you prefer living in a selfish society, well go do that. Sounds like you have the resources. But don't insist on ruining what we have created here for your own selfish desires. It's a zero sum game, and what you take, others lose.

In short, be better.

[PepsiFree]

I dunno, I think we should do the Calgary Pension Plan, especially if pro-APP people are opposed (which basically tells us it’s a good idea). Edmonton can do their own, and then all the rural areas can just figure it out and hope for the best.

FYGM right?

[BowRiverBruinsRule]

I already get CPP. Every month. Got it this month on Dec 20. A lot of questions with an APP and not very many answers. I am happy with CPP. Correct me if I am wrong but CPP is arms length from the GOC and is well regarded. There isn't even an APP yet and the UCP are meddling in AIMCO.

[WideReceiver]

Originally Posted by BowRiverBruinsRule

I already get CPP. Every month. Got it this month on Dec 20. A lot of questions with an APP and not very many answers. I am happy with CPP. Correct me if I am wrong but CPP is arms length from the GOC and is well regarded. There isn't even an APP yet and the UCP are meddling in AIMCO.

You’re not wrong.

[Goriders]

Wondering if there is a lot of opposition to it but their was still political will to pursue it whether you could form an APP and people that were in favour of it could opt in by transferring their CPP monies. Should be a lot easier to figure out individual contributions than a whole provinces contributions over the life of the pension.

Once the fund had a track record people could choose which one they wanted to contribute to. Guessing the way things are written the answer would be no. But I think it would be a good idea. Would force competition.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Wondering if there is a lot of opposition to it but their was still political will to pursue it whether you could form an APP and people that were in favour of it could opt in by transferring their CPP monies. Should be a lot easier to figure out individual contributions than a whole provinces contributions over the life of the pension.

Once the fund had a track record people could choose which one they wanted to contribute to. Guessing the way things are written the answer would be no. But I think it would be a good idea. Would force competition.

Your contributions are paying for other people pensions. The program relies on population growth to fund it. Your money has been spent.

It sounds like you just don’t like CPP and would prefer anything else to it.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Wondering if there is a lot of opposition to it but their was still political will to pursue it whether you could form an APP and people that were in favour of it could opt in by transferring their CPP monies. Should be a lot easier to figure out individual contributions than a whole provinces contributions over the life of the pension.

Once the fund had a track record people could choose which one they wanted to contribute to. Guessing the way things are written the answer would be no. But I think it would be a good idea. Would force competition.

So now CPP has to pay for processing people opting out of the fund that has the best absolute return of the Big Nine? That is waste, pure and simple. This whole project is waste.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I feel like if she decided to call it the BusTits Pension Plan it might get more people on board.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by SebC

So now CPP has to pay for processing people opting out of the fund that has the best absolute return of the Big Nine? That is waste, pure and simple. This whole project is waste.

This is really the culmination of years of pushing, and now Harper will get another of the things he wanted in the Firewall letter. It's not based on need or logic, it's a decades long axe grind against Ottawa, and voters have dutifully lined up behind his bull####. You see the same names over and over, doing the same stupid stuff until they find a way to make it stick. The fact that no amount of facts or reason can change the minds of the many many people like Goriders in this province is the reason we have to waste money on stupid ideas. People are just too stupid and easily manipulated.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ok, but you aren't setting up the fund. You are supporting a government that absolutely will not do that and has told us they won't do that. So now you know they will meddle, do you still think it is a good idea?

This is the most compelling argument against the APP imo. The demographic math of fewer people with pre-1990 service is compelling for Albertans otherwise. It wouldn't even matter if the province started to age, since we aren't going back in time to add years of service pre-1990 when contributions were way to low.

But you can't trust the UCP with your pension money so no matter how good the math is we shouldn't switch.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by BowRiverBruinsRule

I already get CPP. Every month. Got it this month on Dec 20. A lot of questions with an APP and not very many answers. I am happy with CPP. Correct me if I am wrong but CPP is arms length from the GOC and is well regarded. There isn't even an APP yet and the UCP are meddling in AIMCO.

It is arms length. Or at least it’s supposed to be. I’m not sure how it’s ensured exactly.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

You guys with your embedded alternate conversations are messing with my one-track mind; how are we going to persuade Goriders and his compatriots they are on the wrong track?

even if the numbers work to Alberta's advantage, this Alberta government cannot be trusted to respect the wishes of the electorate. They will put their thumb on the scale to direct funds to help out their donor-base.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your contributions are paying for other people pensions. The program relies on population growth to fund it. Your money has been spent.

It sounds like you just don’t like CPP and would prefer anything else to it.

I don’t think that’s the case. But if there was a better option I would be interested. Who wouldn’t?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Goriders

It is arms length. Or at least it’s supposed to be. I’m not sure how it’s ensured exactly.

That doesn't hold the weight you think it does. AIMCO is Exhibit #1. Or do you expect Stephen Harper to manage it at arm's length from the provincial government?

Don't bother answering, we already know.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

This is the most compelling argument against the APP imo. The demographic math of fewer people with pre-1990 service is compelling for Albertans otherwise. It wouldn't even matter if the province started to age, since we aren't going back in time to add years of service pre-1990 when contributions were way to low.

But you can't trust the UCP with your pension money so no matter how good the math is we shouldn't switch.

There was one other item that they kept talking about online. It was a $1.4 trillion deficit that I think the CPP carries. Something about the original recipients funding not being covered by their contributions (because there weren’t any) at the start of the program. I didn’t quite follow that part.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by D as in David

That doesn't hold the weight you think it does. AIMCO is Exhibit #1. Or do you expect Stephen Harper to manage it at arm's length from the provincial government?

Don't bother answering, we already know.

I was talking about the CPP. He asked about the CPP.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

even if the numbers work to Alberta's advantage, this Alberta government cannot be trusted to respect the wishes of the electorate. They will put their thumb on the scale to direct funds to help out their donor-base.

Think I mentioned earlier that they would have to put rules in to ensure there was no political interference. Would probably have to mirror whatever the CPP does.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

This is the most compelling argument against the APP imo. The demographic math of fewer people with pre-1990 service is compelling for Albertans otherwise. It wouldn't even matter if the province started to age, since we aren't going back in time to add years of service pre-1990 when contributions were way to low.

But you can't trust the UCP with your pension money so no matter how good the math is we shouldn't switch.

That’s why I think the two option route would be the best. People could choose which pension they wanted to contribute to.

[Wormius]

Nobody asked for an APP. It’s a make-work project for UCP cronies.