2024-25 Huberdeau - new and improved?

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That is one person who used those two words once, not really relevant to our discussion.

Are you referring to his corsi% of 48%? That is the lowest of his career, and one of the lowest on the team. That stat doesn't incorporate either the quality of chances or the prime starts that he receives so I don't really like it.

It's a forward group that is really struggling and unfortunately he is among the worst.

It's hard to deep dive analytically on a player who has yet to play with an actual NHL centermen this season.

Don't get me wrong, I truly think it's a good thing that Pospisil, Zary and Sharangovich are getting reps at the C position but there are some serious growing pains and a steep learning curves for these guys, and Huberdeau has almost exclusively had to deal with that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

GioforPM is reacting to each post like he personally endorsed Huberdeau to be Treliving's sole target in trading for him and giving him the $84M contract.

I mean, he has 20 blocked shots this year!!!!

You gotta do better than that to justify 84M dollars.

No, I'm reacting top each post like someone who wants there to be rational discussion instead of made up facts and hyperbole. you can minimize blocked shots, but I suggest you look at how that topic even came up. Someone implied Huberdeau couldn't play PK because he's good at passing into skates and not using skates to block shots and I just noted that he leads the forwards in blocks. That was the extent of it, and you are the one making a big deal of the stat.

I think you are a tad triggered by any suggestion that Huberdeau is not the worst player on the team and a dud at every facet of the game, and that there ight by some contrubting factors to his bad production which, as bad as it is, is still ahead of every other forward except Kadri and Zary.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's hard to deep dive analytically on a player who has yet to play with an actual NHL centermen this season.

Don't get me wrong, I truly think it's a good thing that Pospisil, Zary and Sharangovich are getting reps at the C position but there are some serious growing pains and a steep learning curves for these guys, and Huberdeau has almost exclusively had to deal with that.

No no no - it doesn't matter who he plays with.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I missed your edit.

This is where you need to look for xgoals for and against.

https://moneypuck.com/t.htm?t=CGY

7th in expected goals for
11th in expected goals for percentage
11th in expected goal differential

All amongst forwards.

But maybe we should talk about Kadri more because he has been downright horrible. Difference is no one really defending him I guess.

They have two pages with different results? The page I showed gives him a 4.8 expected goal differential (Coronato's at 8.1 and Kadri is 2). The stats page I linked to is a lot more in depth.

[Teroy]

Huberdeau is what he is; a huge disappointment. Any thought that he'll get any better is a waste of thinking. Myself, I've completely given up on worrying about his contribution. I'd just like him moved off the power play. I feel for the guys who are stuck playing with him in an effort to make him better. I'm more concerned about Kadri and Andersson.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They have two pages with different results? The page I showed gives him a 4.8 expected goal differential (Coronato's at 8.1 and Kadri is 2). The stats page I linked to is a lot more in depth.

Not sure what you are looking at since you linked to the main page.

Huberdeau's expected goal differential 5on5 is minus 1.92. That is 15th on the team for all skaters. Awful.

Maybe you are including PP time. You can't look at expected goal differential without excluding special teams. Otherwise it favors PP time and penalizes players that kill penalties. I would certainly hope he is near the top of the team the way he has been given PP time.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's hard to deep dive analytically on a player who has yet to play with an actual NHL centermen this season.

Don't get me wrong, I truly think it's a good thing that Pospisil, Zary and Sharangovich are getting reps at the C position but there are some serious growing pains and a steep learning curves for these guys, and Huberdeau has almost exclusively had to deal with that.

I would agree but it’s been 3 years so he is a lost cause.
Running out of excuses

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

It's hard to deep dive analytically on a player who has yet to play with an actual NHL centermen this season.

Don't get me wrong, I truly think it's a good thing that Pospisil, Zary and Sharangovich are getting reps at the C position but there are some serious growing pains and a steep learning curves for these guys, and Huberdeau has almost exclusively had to deal with that.

It's true he hasn't played with Backlund much at all, and every C on the team has had issues (Rooney's been fine). You'd like to see a veteran like Huberdeau help that situation though.

Really the best thing for this team IMO is finding another NHL quality center and put the young wingers in their right spots. Which eventually squeezes someone like Huberdeau out of the lineup.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not sure what you are looking at since you linked to the main page.

Huberdeau's expected goal differential 5on5 is minus 1.92. That is 15th on the team for all skaters. Awful.

Maybe you are including PP time. You can't look at expected goal differential without excluding special teams. Otherwise it favors PP time and penalizes players that kill penalties. I would certainly hope he is near the top of the team the way he has been given PP time.

I'm looking at on ice expected goal differential. Yes, that includes powerplay. Because it counts. ES, he's 9th on the team (you could throw a blanket over he and the the two closest guys, Sharangovich and Lomberg), but the number isn't horrible. The whole team outside of Pospisil and Kadry are at about break even.

Anyway, it's true that it's pointless to go over it - it is what it is, he's not going anywhere.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Not sure what you are looking at since you linked to the main page.

Huberdeau's expected goal differential 5on5 is minus 1.92. That is 15th on the team for all skaters. Awful.

Maybe you are including PP time. You can't look at expected goal differential without excluding special teams. Otherwise it favors PP time and penalizes players that kill penalties. I would certainly hope he is near the top of the team the way he has been given PP time.

Huberdeau has always feasted on the powerplay. I think the year he scored 115 points, only McDavid and Draisaitl had a more skewed pp points to 5-on-5 points ratio among the league top scorers (Kaprizov and Stamkos were in there too, all were pretty close). People love to call out McDavid and Draisaitl for padding their point production through the powerplay, but Huberdeau is (or was) in that same class.

I mean hey, they all count. I don't care if certain players need to rely on the powerplay more to score. Scoring on the powerplay wins you games just like scoring 5-on-5. The problem is that the Flames powerplay smells like cheeks. Huberdeau was supposed to be the guy to get it going, but for whatever reason, he can't do it. I think Treliving misjudged him as being a play driver when he really isn't, and a lot of Florida fans could have told him that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Huberdeau has always feasted on the powerplay. I think the year he scored 115 points, only McDavid and Draisaitl had a more skewed pp points to 5-on-5 points ratio among the league top scorers (Kaprizov and Stamkos were in there too, all were pretty close). People love to call out McDavid and Draisaitl for padding their point production through the powerplay, but Huberdeau is (or was) in that same class.

I mean hey, they all count. I don't care if certain players need to rely on the powerplay more to score. Scoring on the powerplay wins you games just like scoring 5-on-5. The problem is that the Flames powerplay smells like cheeks. Huberdeau was supposed to be the guy to get it going, but for whatever reason, he can't do it. I think Treliving misjudged him as being a play driver when he really isn't, and a lot of Florida fans could have told him that.

The powerplay definitely has sucked. I'm not sure that's on Huberdeau, since his stats are better than anyone except Zary on the powerplay. Then again, advanced stats don't say much about why a power play doesn't work.
I have never thought they played through him like they should, and lots of people have said the same. They play him net front half of the time and high wall the other half. He should be low corner.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm looking at on ice expected goal differential. Yes, that includes powerplay. Because it counts. ES, he's 9th on the team (you could throw a blanket over he and the the two closest guys, Sharangovich and Lomberg), but the number isn't horrible. The whole team outside of Pospisil and Kadry are at about break even.

Anyway, it's true that it's pointless to go over it - it is what it is, he's not going anywhere.

No you can't include the powerplay or PK when looking at a plus/minus type statistic. Come on now Gio, you said you wanted rational discussion and not made up numbers.

PP counts when looking at goals, sure, but not a goal differential stat comparing to guys who are on the PK.

He is 15th on the team 5on5 expected goal differential, minimum ice time of 50 minutes. Full stop.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No you can't include the powerplay or PK when looking at a plus/minus type statistic. Come on now Gio, you said you wanted rational discussion and not made up numbers.

PP counts when looking at goals, sure, but not a goal differential stat comparing to guys who are on the PK.

He is 15th on the team 5on5 expected goal differential, minimum ice time of 50 minutes. Full stop.

Yes, I was looking at 60 minutes, not 5-5, so you are right about where he strands on that stat. But the actual number says whether he is getting "caved in" or not. The Flames generally are pretty close to 0.0 as a team and as individuals, except for two guys. If he was dead last on the team, but everyone on the team has a positive differential do you describe him as getting "caved in"?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yes, I was looking at 60 minutes, not 5-5, so you are right about where he strands on that stat. But the actual number says whether he is getting "caved in" or not. The Flames generally are pretty close to 0.0 as a team and as individuals, except for two guys. If he was dead last on the team, but everyone on the team has a positive differential do you describe him as getting "caved in"?

I don't care one bit about "caved in". Not my argument, I guess one person said it somewhere.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't care one bit about "caved in". Not my argument, I guess one person said it somewhere.

Well, that's what the stats were being discussed for. Someone said he was, I said Bingo's post game numbers didn't usually show that, and there we went...

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They play him net front half of the time and high wall the other half. He should be low corner.

Yeah, low corner on the bench.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, Flames could really use a compliance buy out in the next CBA. I'm sure he's a nice guy, and his contract certainly isn't holding the Flames back ATM. However, this albatross will still be hanging around Conroy's neck when he's looking to extend the next core of this team.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Yeah, low corner on the bench.

Put him in the press box. It's not like it makes any difference on the ice.

[dirk diggler]

last time he was benched, such a big deal was made of it. I like Huska but i dont like the length of leash Huberdeau has, he can play horribly but never gets taken off the PP. Its like he is so sensitive that they dont want to hurt his fragile confidence? I just know that 6 more years of watching those giveaways is going to be tough.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, Flames could really use a compliance buy out in the next CBA. I'm sure he's a nice guy, and his contract certainly isn't holding the Flames back ATM. However, this albatross will still be hanging around Conroy's neck when he's looking to extend the next core of this team.

You are assuming that Edward’s would want to pay many millions of dollars for that purpose.

In any event, compliance buyouts have been allowed when caps haven’t increased or even decreased. With the expected big increases in the cap, it’s doubtful it will be required to use the compliance buyouts anytime soon.