American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Saw a good comment on Reddit about #99, and now I can't unsee it:

Wayne Gretzky is as much a Canadian icon as Tim Hortons. They used to be good, but sold out to corporate interest long ago.

Accurate..

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Americans made it very clear they're tired or woke culture and overly focusing on those issues.

Source?

Pew research, at least on something like trans rights, seems to indicate stances on those issues are a bit more complex.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...gender-issues/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...ntity_0_1-png/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...ntity_0_2-png/

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Americans made it very clear they're tired or woke culture and overly focusing on those issues. Even most centre/left voices have noted it's time to walk back from those focuses and talk about things like the economy, immigration, & bring men's value/health back into the fold.
Progressive issues still do well in the down ballet, but American's don't want to hear about them all the time.

Suggesting the Democrats lost because they weren't progressive enough is a wild perspective.

At some point, you just need to realize Americans are mostly centre right or right leaning and the American dream of capitalism runs deep in their veins.
They accept some progressive values, but it won't shape their identity.

What is "woke culture"

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Democrats won't be able to appeal to the working class, and I don't think this election had anything to do with campaigns.

They could at least try.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Democrats won't be able to appeal to the working class, and I don't think this election had anything to do with campaigns.

Literally, the majority of American's didn't listen to anything, didn't care, and just voted for the other guy because they had a bad 4 years.

Call them what they are. Democrats appeal to the "liberal elite" because these are people who care and give a damn. When the majority of the population doesn't, why would you vote for them?

Canada is going to go Conservative too, we're just as dumb. Look no further than the BC provincial election where there were people voting for the BC Conservatives because Justin Trudeau and the Liberals have been in power long enough.

Democracy is stupid and you know what, maybe Trump is right. Just do away with those pesky elections. What does it matter anyway?

Rome did alright for like 400 years after getting rid of that pesky Republic.

[Looch City]

Wouldn't focusing on men's health be a part of your "woke culture"?

Because without it, it would be " quit being a sissy, you're a man, MAN up".

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is "woke culture"

It's a weird statement to make, especially considering it's been the GOP that's been harping on "woke culture" for the past 4-6 years. What exactly have the Dems been doing lately that's considered "woke?"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Rome did alright for like 400 years after getting rid of that pesky Republic.

I mean...sure, Rome got sacked a few times, but they stuck by their principles and never let the women or slaves vote!

Now thats integrity!

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Locke

I mean...sure, Rome got sacked a few times, but they stuck by their principles and never let the women or slaves vote!

Now thats integrity!

Bah, the main sackings came after. It's not like Trump will just go fiddle golf while Rome America burns.

Start up some fighting games and throw a few Terrorists to the lions, totally Make America Greco-Roman Again!

[rubecube]

The "Pod Save America" guys (former Obama speechwriters) on the topic:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1854891555989184927

[GioforPM]

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com...-truth-society

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What is "woke culture"

The use of the term "woke" in a political context originates with Black activists in the United States in the early- to mid-20th century, according to McGill political science professor Terri Givens.

Givens said it was used as a term of vigilance, calling for greater public awareness of racial discrimination. As a Black woman growing up in the United States, she said, she was very familiar with the term.

"I've heard this term throughout my life," she said. "It's a term that means, 'We need to wake up to the fact that [discrimination is] happening to us.'"

Givens said that while the term has been used within Black communities in North America for decades, it gained prominence in the wider public discourse during the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Saul said that in the years following the rise of Black Lives Matter, people started applying the term more broadly to awareness of other social issues, such as sexism, poverty and the challenges facing LGBTQ people.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...abel-1.6586136

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by activeStick

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lib...abel-1.6586136

Now it makes sense why supporters of Trump don't like it

[Puppet Guy]

One of my favourite old Bloom County cartoons is relevant here:

Spoiler!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Bah, the main sackings came after. It's not like Trump will just go fiddle golf while Rome America burns.

Start up some fighting games and throw a few Terrorists to the lions, totally Make America Greco-Roman Again!

Bread and Circuses!!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Source?

Pew research, at least on something like trans rights, seems to indicate stances on those issues are a bit more complex.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...gender-issues/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...ntity_0_1-png/

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...ntity_0_2-png/

While a conversation might be more complex elections arent conversations and so Trans rights ends up being decided on little more than 'should men be able to pee in the girls bathroom in an elementry school, hell no hang the dirty preverts!!!'

If the left want's to have any chance it has to abandon it's attachment to nuance, what ever you want to do has to be able to summed up in a four word slogan that will appeal to a middle aged white guy

[CliffFletcher]

Top 3 reasons voters chose Trump:

Inflation
Illegal immigrants crossing the border
Harris too focused on cultural issues rather than helping average Americans

Bottom 3 reasons (out of 25):

Harris too pro-Israel
Harris too conservative
Harris isn’t similar enough to Biden

http://blueprint2024.com/polling/why...-reasons-11-8/

[#-3]

Originally Posted by rubecube

They could at least try.

I'd actually be curious what your proposal to appeal to the working class?

suspect most of what you are going to bring up could easily to sorted into 3 categories,

Things they are doing just not fast enough for you, largely due to weak majorities for divided governments. And it's incredibly hypocritical to cede political ground to the other side on these issues, because you are just letting things you proport to care about get worse.

This that would be wildly unpopular in the real world, and you can want, but you can't actually expect a real party to advocate for. "I think they should charge a $185/ton carbon tax"... it is the correct progressive stance, but would have incredibly regressive real world results, and would be very unpopular.

Things they are doing and people just aren't well informed enough to understand. I've heard a lot of political commentary "It's the economy stupid" but every economist in world agrees, Trumps platform is ill advised, inflationary, and risks being the proximate cause of a recession. Yet trust is so wildly misplaced it defies explanation.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Top 3 reasons voters chose Trump:

Inflation
Illegal immigrants crossing the border
Harris too focused on cultural issues rather than helping average Americans

Bottom 3 reasons (out of 25):

Harris too pro-Israel
Harris too conservative
Harris isn’t similar enough to Biden

http://blueprint2024.com/polling/why...-reasons-11-8/

Doesn’t this assume that an election is about persuading voters to change between candidates as opposed to voting or not voting?

I think a similar exercise of non-voters who lean Dem and non-voters who lean republican would be more illuminating.

You don’t care why republicans voted for Trump or why Dems voted for Harris. You only care about groups who changed votes in 2016/2020/2024 or who voted previously and didn’t vote this time or didn’t vote previously and voted this time. You can’t extract that data from the main blocks of people who will always vote Dem or always vote repub and will always find a reason for doing so.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

So it made it a 1v1 and Biden beat Bernie substantially.

There sure are a lot of progressives who like to come in these post loss threads to do an "I told you so" victory lap and relishing the Harris loss.

And yet we're supposed to believe that progressives weren't sitting this election out (or voting Trump) to make a point?

They were not in the thread in 2020 when Biden kicked the crap out of Bernie and then kicked the crap out of Trump. But this is 2024 so they are back.