I can't see them supporting anything on your list. To be honest, some of your list might even age out. The first mass marketed hydrogen fuel cell powered car is online in Australia.
What will age out and when? Please, I'm curious to know.
I think one of the most major problems is that this gives Big Orange the opportunity to stack the US Supreme Court for most of the rest of our lives with psychotic sycophants.
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When I say progressives, I am going with the 2016- definition of Bernie supporters/Bernie Bros/Progressives. Prior to 2016, progress was being made. If there is a better name for that group, let me know.
You referred to “progressives” during the civil rights movement the same way.
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Originally Posted by nfotiu
The last couple pages read like "you should have listened to us", or here's a random Tweet showing why we were right. That's fine. But what did or does a winning message to the working class look like?
We just saw it. They’re worried about their jobs and putting food on the table. Their concerns over inflation and immigration stem from those things.
You can take solace in the fact that Trump lied to them and is actually going to make their lives worse if you want, but that doesn’t explain why Democrats, armed with the truth and the reality that even if their lives weren’t going to get better wouldn’t get worse in the same way, couldn’t or wouldn’t convey that message just as powerfully.
Trump actually spent a significant amount of time speaking directly to the concerns of the working class. These are the same kind of concerns progressives have been talking about. Establishment Dems didn’t, or couldn’t bring themselves to talk about. Maybe because their nominee was part of that establishment and weren’t able to speak to the fact that people are scared and struggling because it would mean owning that. But hell, people like Lanny who cry about how you should just ignore people you disagree with used Biden’s election as proof that you didn’t have to listen to progressives at all, now he’s whining about progressives costing Dems the election. So pick a lane.
Are progressives and the working class important or not? Because if you’re saying they cost you the election, they are, and it’s time to look inward. If you’re saying they aren’t, then stop pretending they cost you the election.
At the end of the day, the Democrats can make a decision to appeal to the people they want to vote for them… or not. And I’m not talking about saying how much worse Trump would be. I’m talking about focusing on the issues that matter to them and speaking to them at their level. Or not. But if not, stop then turning around and blaming them for costing you the election or being too hard to reach. It’s embarrassing.
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Originally Posted by nfotiu
I've heard more than a couple progressive, white college kids living fairly privileged live say things like "I'm not voting this time around because it doesn't really make any difference to me"
Maybe it is only 4-5 people, or maybe it is a million, but it's not zero, and the common language makes it sound like they are being influenced by someone.
Tens of millions of people didn’t vote. Do you think they’re all progressives? Hell, why would you even be surprised if those millions weren’t made up by people of all political stripes?
You can label people progressives all you want to serve whatever gripe you have with them, but why make up people when you’re talking to one right now that does care about those people, voted for Harris, but still sees where they went wrong? l
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Originally Posted by nfotiu
Do those guys care that I had a couple female (one gay) employees call in yesterday morning because they were distraught to show up?
Also a big investor in Xitter, so gotta be close with Musk, too. It's just a vile cesspool of horrible people.
Do you mean to tell me that every member of the billionaire class isn’t a benevolent job creator who keeps the best interests of those in worse financial situations at the forefront of everything they do?
Next you’ll be telling me that they aren’t gonna be using those tax cuts to increase wages as much as possible.
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Get ready for Musk to have massive influence over American politics - Elmo joined Trump on his phone calls to President Zelensky and on his call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
Get ready for Musk to have massive influence over American politics - Elmo joined Trump on his phone calls to President Zelensky and on his call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
So it made it a 1v1 and Biden beat Bernie substantially.
There sure are a lot of progressives who like to come in these post loss threads to do an "I told you so" victory lap and relishing the Harris loss.
And yet we're supposed to believe that progressives weren't sitting this election out (or voting Trump) to make a point?
What an insane thing to suggest. Progressives are criticizing the Democratic party because they did not want Trump to win, kept telling the centrist types that the warning signs were there, and were subsequently told to essentially #### off and shut up by people like you.
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
The reason the Dem's are center right is the same reason that Labour in the UK has gone center, because every time they try moving left they get utterly buggered in the election.
Again, this isn't supported by any evidence. Biden ran a much more progressive campaign than Harris or Hillary did and won. Progressive ballot measures also outperformed Harris substantially. AOC won outperformed Harris in her district.
The Dems ran a campaign where they went full hawk on foreign policy and tried to appeal to neocons, and guess what? They got utterly buggered.
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Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald
I agree with what you're saying. I've been trying to stay away from this thread to let the temperature settle down and some of the emotion burn off. The progressive left made a conscious decision to not vote (again) and that really hurt the Dems (wasn't the only reason, but was a big reason). They aren't taking responsibility for this action but are instead trying to dunk on the Dems for not going full Thelma and Louise and driving the whole party off the cliff to appease them.
This was the easiest prediction to make about this election.
Do you have source for this Lanny, or this your usual "I live in America and understand the electorate better than you dumb Canadians," talking out of your ass schtick?
The Democrats went after the neocon vote and got crushed for it. That's not dunking on them. It's a valid criticism of the campaign and most of us were saying it was stupid move before the election. Republicans, when faced with the choice of Republican or Republican-lite, are always going to vote for actual Republicans.
If elections are won on the margins and with voter turnout, why would you go after a segment you are unlikely to capture instead of pumping up your own base? It was mind-blowingly stupid and the only reason I can think as to why they went this route is because that was the marching orders given to them by their wealthiest donors.
If the hydrogen experiment works on a large scale, it's superior to electric in most ways. That's a monumental shift.
That's a loaded statement. What's the large scale threshold to ditch electric vehicles? Does that mean society will abandon electric vehicles en masse?
Lots of moving parts for the hydrogen vehicle, including price point, availability, and infrastructure. Electric is way, way ahead of the curve.
If anything the entire portfolio will be a mix of different vehicle types, just like it is now, but with less fossil fuels/conventional types in that pie.
Get ready for Musk to have massive influence over American politics - Elmo joined Trump on his phone calls to President Zelensky and on his call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
The satire in Don't Look Up isn't aging well, it's more like a prediction movie at this point. Hell an apocalyptic asteroid would almost be a relief at this point
The satire in Don't Look Up isn't aging well, it's more like a prediction movie at this point. Hell an apocalyptic asteroid would almost be a relief at this point
My favorite scene in that movie is near the end, when the people who gave a #### before it was too late accept their fate and enjoy a nice dinner with friends.
Americans made it very clear they're tired or woke culture and overly focusing on those issues. Even most centre/left voices have noted it's time to walk back from those focuses and talk about things like the economy, immigration, & bring men's value/health back into the fold.
Progressive issues still do well in the down ballet, but American's don't want to hear about them all the time.
Suggesting the Democrats lost because they weren't progressive enough is a wild perspective.
At some point, you just need to realize Americans are mostly centre right or right leaning and the American dream of capitalism runs deep in their veins.
They accept some progressive values, but it won't shape their identity.
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Democrats won't be able to appeal to the working class, and I don't think this election had anything to do with campaigns.
Literally, the majority of American's didn't listen to anything, didn't care, and just voted for the other guy because they had a bad 4 years.
Call them what they are. Democrats appeal to the "liberal elite" because these are people who care and give a damn. When the majority of the population doesn't, why would you vote for them?
Canada is going to go Conservative too, we're just as dumb. Look no further than the BC provincial election where there were people voting for the BC Conservatives because Justin Trudeau and the Liberals have been in power long enough.
Democracy is stupid and you know what, maybe Trump is right. Just do away with those pesky elections. What does it matter anyway?
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