Israel declares war on Hamas

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I do wonder what the hell you think Israel can do to defend itself, I mean the alternative to the pagers is dropping jdams and leveling and block of houses

The problem being that they really aren't getting any safer with any of these actions. I think that there are groups in the middle east who would love for nothing more than to wipe Israel off the map and return things to pre 1948 and I am not in favour of that whatsoever. I also think that these actions cause much worse long term harm than anything else.

Are they safer when they have given the next generation of people in the region a reason to hate them - because they have killed their friends and families?

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Itse

I wonder how far things have to escalate before that line stops making sense to people.

Sorry, what's happening right now to civilians isn't "enough"? Can things actually "escalate" more? From the CBC story that Fuzz shared earlier.

In the early afternoon on Sept. 3, the Al-Daqqi sisters waited in line in Deir Al-Balah in the central Gaza Strip as a brief humanitarian pause allowed for an immunization campaign to protect them against polio and the possibility of paralysis.

Hours later, Hanan and Misk Al-Daqqi found themselves amputees and without a mother after their home was hit by an Israeli airstrike minutes after the pause ended.

Hanan, 3, lost her legs. Misk, 1, had to get her left foot amputated.

Hanan "was in her mother's lap [but] the airstrike caused her to fly onto the neighbour's house," said the girls' aunt, Shafa Al-Daqqi, speaking from Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital.

"They are allowing for polio immunization but then not even hours later they find themselves without legs. What good is it that [Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu allowed for the immunization?"

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The problem being that they really aren't getting any safer with any of these actions. I think that there are groups in the middle east who would love for nothing more than to wipe Israel off the map and return things to pre 1948 and I am not in favour of that whatsoever. I also think that these actions cause much worse long term harm than anything else.

Are they safer when they have given the next generation of people in the region a reason to hate them - because they have killed their friends and families?

I’d argue things like the pager attack do over the long term make Israel safer whereas bombing safe areas hours after the safe zone exprires does not. The pager attack damages the communication network used by Hezbolah and identifies Hezbolah members. To me regardless of the Hezbolah response Israel was likely in a better defensive position post attack.

That they are using it as a pre-text to start a bombing campaign in southern Lebanon does make Israel safer.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Isn’t it being widely reported that Israel was responsible for the exploding pager and walkie-talkie attacks? Is this actually up for debate?

It’s up for debate the same way people “debate” that there’s Haitians eating dogs and cats in Ohio.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

They can stop being goddamn ####ing monsters maybe? #### sakes. So goddamn tired of seeing this.

When you fight monsters history shows you act like monsters, I think everyone agrees it would be more humane if wars were fought between military forces only but that's a rare reality, in the last 100 years that only really happens in the middle of an ocean, about 70 million people died in WWII with 50 million of those being civilian. War is ugly.

Decade after decade everyone is tired of this crap except for the people who started it, this one is no different.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

When you fight monsters history shows you act like monsters

Finally.
Some form of admission that Israel is every bit as evil, vile, sadistic, monstrous and barbaric as Hamas.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I asked you a simple question. Yes or no?

You cant answer that?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=8900

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Child I have asked you a simple question with a yes or no answer.

No one will respect you if you cannot answer this. I have been asking you to prove me wrong over and over again and you cannot. So you insult the poster not the post.

Adults are trying to have a conversation. Try to be one!

If you cannot even admit to the facts at hand why post?

Let’s engage in an honest conversation as you told another poster. Yet you cannot do that.

Do you have proof Israel did this? Since you refuse to answer that it means you don’t have proof. You have been given every opportunity to provide that proof. Yet still nothing.

I am more than happy to engage in this conversation. Yet you cannot even get out of the gate. Did Israel do this? I have been told facts matter. Facts are there is no proof Israel did this. You have been given every chance to disprove this. So is this a hatred of Jews or Muslims?

Again do you have proof Israel did this? If you don’t have proof all your posts are meaningless.

Do I think you care? I just think you are upset that you are getting spanked right now in a forum. You have been asked to provide proof to your lies.

That is what they are until you have proof.

Know who you're talking to, that person was pushing a pro-hamas position ON oct 7th before Israel retaliated and has been constantly doing so for every page of this thread. You might as well be asking Sinwar himself for proof.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

The problem being that they really aren't getting any safer with any of these actions. I think that there are groups in the middle east who would love for nothing more than to wipe Israel off the map and return things to pre 1948 and I am not in favour of that whatsoever. I also think that these actions cause much worse long term harm than anything else.

Are they safer when they have given the next generation of people in the region a reason to hate them - because they have killed their friends and families?

Were they any safer after giving them all of Gaza to rule for almost 20years? Apparently they are damned if they retaliate and damned if they don't, according to the west the only option is to lie down and be murdered.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

…Are they safer when they have given the next generation of people in the region a reason to hate them - because they have killed their friends and families?

Sure they are. USSR and UK all felt much safer politically and militarily by decimating Germany. US also felt safer by nuking Japan. Destroying terrorist infrastructures is very effective. It’s neither easy nor quick to recruit people who are ready and willing to die on a moment’s notice. It’s neither easy nor quick to re-stock missiles and re-build launch bunkers. These events go hand-in-hand. Provocations from militant groups are useful in these types of conflicts, because they allow for justification of a lot of military response action without too much international pushback. Israel understands it well and is using it to get as much advantage against Hamas and Hezbollah as they can. Why wouldn’t they? US will soon tell them to stop and retreat and then there will be another decade of smouldering peace and quiet before the next provocation.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Were they any safer after giving them all of Gaza to rule for almost 20years? Apparently they are damned if they retaliate and damned if they don't, according to the west the only option is to lie down and be murdered.

Yes???

Addressing the intelligence failures that led to Oct 7th likely will protect Israel the most. They limited deaths between 2008 to pre October 7th to 300 people including both military and civilians. They are up to about 300 post October 7th Causalities. When Israel goes to war Israeli’s die.

This chart shows it nicely

https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...ves-since-1987

Leaving Gaza ended a significant period of Israeli deaths from the 2nd intifada.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Finally.
Some form of admission that Israel is every bit as evil, vile, sadistic, monstrous and barbaric as Hamas.

When Israel is named a worldwide terrorist state and start chanting death to all Muslims in the streets, indiscriminately cross borders to slaughter kids at music festivals, lob rockets and bombs at their neighbours just out of pure evil hatred I will agree.

If you don't see the difference between terrorism and war then you're an idiot and extremely biased and full of antisemitism, all these innocent palestinian deaths are on Hamas. And the worst part of all is they like it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

When you fight monsters history shows you act like monsters, I think everyone agrees it would be more humane if wars were fought between military forces only but that's a rare reality, in the last 100 years that only really happens in the middle of an ocean, about 70 million people died in WWII with 50 million of those being civilian. War is ugly.

Decade after decade everyone is tired of this crap except for the people who started it, this one is no different.

Stop justifying the maiming of children. It's gross. Israel doe snot NEED to do this. They choose to. Everyone has a choice. You have chosen to support doing this to children:





I will not. I have no shame in my position.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Stop justifying the maiming of children. It's gross. Israel doe snot NEED to do this. They choose to. Everyone has a choice. You have chosen to support doing this to children:




I will not. I have no shame in my position.

And there it is, Israel has the choice to lie down and die like some people so badly want. You have chosen to support terrorists who rape, kidnap and murder children as their modus operandi. Don't claim the moral high ground, you have no morals.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

And there it is, Israel has the choice to lie down and die like some people so badly want. You have chosen to support terrorists who rape, kidnap and murder children as their modus operandi. Don't claim the moral high ground, you have no morals.

Oh go #### yourself, I've chosen nothing of the sort.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

When Israel is named a worldwide terrorist state and start chanting death to all Muslims in the streets, indiscriminately cross borders to slaughter kids at music festivals, lob rockets and bombs at their neighbours just out of pure evil hatred I will agree.

If you don't see the difference between terrorism and war then you're an idiot and extremely biased and full of antisemitism, all these innocent palestinian deaths are on Hamas. And the worst part of all is they like it.

If it is isn't the hypocritical name calling thread starter that cried to the mods to close the thread because of...... name calling.

You think the world doesn't see them as a sick terrorist state you're either in denial or deluded.
You think Israel's current behaviour is any different or less evil to Hamas you're the same. You even admitted so. You called them monsters yourself.

They're BOTH sick twisted and evil. You think the world doesn't see the burning alive of children. The decapitated of children. The deliberate sniping and murder of children as terrorism? The using a child as bait to lure in paramedics so they could execute both the child and paramedics?

And lol at your sad pathetic sick warped use of the antisemitic card. That card expired long time ago. To be critical of a country engaged in genocide does not constitute antisemitism. Shame on you for your pathetic attempt to silence just criticism of mass murder of children. Disgusting.

Listen to this sicko and his justification for deliberate murder of children.

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

all these innocent palestinian deaths are on Hamas

Some sick Israeli lines up in his scope and blows the brains out of a two year old toddler and your rationalization is that Hamas made him do it therefore it can't be an act of terrorism? Israel is blameless. Wtf is wrong with you?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Some sick Israeli lines up in his scope and blows the brains out of a two year old toddler and your rationalization is that Hamas made him do it therefore it can't be an act of terrorism? Israel is blameless. Wtf is wrong with you?

Assuming you mean the west bank incident? the Israeli military has reprimanded the officer and started a criminal investigation, who knows if it will go anywhere but if that was a Hamas fighter shooting a Jewish kid he would be giving a hero's dinner and a hostage to rape,abuse and kill.

And yes these civilian deaths are on Hamas, if Oct 7th didn't happen the Gaza bombings wouldn't have either.

Looking back at your posts in this thread I haven't seen one post on how you think Israel should end this, not one post asking for Hamas to return the hostages to help end this. It's very telling on your mindset.

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Assuming you mean the west bank incident? the Israeli military has reprimanded the officer and started a criminal investigation, who knows if it will go anywhere but if that was a Hamas fighter shooting a Jewish kid he would be giving a hero's dinner and a hostage to rape,abuse and kill.

And yes these civilian deaths are on Hamas, if Oct 7th didn't happen the Gaza bombings wouldn't have either.

Looking back at your posts in this thread I haven't seen one post on how you think Israel should end this, not one post asking for Hamas to return the hostages to help end this. It's very telling on your mindset.

Serious question - what would Israel do that would make you stop supporting them?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Assuming you mean the west bank incident? the Israeli military has reprimanded the officer and started a criminal investigation, who knows if it will go anywhere but if that was a Hamas fighter shooting a Jewish kid he would be giving a hero's dinner and a hostage to rape,abuse and kill.

And yes these civilian deaths are on Hamas, if Oct 7th didn't happen the Gaza bombings wouldn't have either.

Looking back at your posts in this thread I haven't seen one post on how you think Israel should end this, not one post asking for Hamas to return the hostages to help end this. It's very telling on your mindset.

At a certain point, if you want to actually have an honest conversation, you have to acknowledge Israel’s culpability for their own actions and stop pretending everything else is someone else’s fault. It might feel better to pretend someone made them do it, but that only really works as far as you’re willing to suspend your belief in free will.

I’ve seen Bagor, like pretty much every single other poster here, condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization. I’m not sure what posters like yourself gain by pretending that isn’t true or obfuscating legitimate criticism of Israel with an implied or direct accusation of some ulterior, sinister motive.

If you haven’t seen enough condemnation of Hamas without conceding any valid, earned criticism against Israel without exception, how much would it actually take? Because right now it just seems like you’re holding others to standards of argument that you have completely failed to live up to yourself.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Assuming you mean the west bank incident?

LOL. Look at him trying to paint it as some isolated incident.

No I don't. I'm referring to the routine shooting of Gaza children by snipers.

Murders that for some reason your sick mind denies as
acts of terrorism.

You are defending the deliberate murder of children.