The NDP will never form government. Not enough support in southern Ontario or Quebec to hit that critical mass. And with an expected supermajority for the CPC, this is as good as it gets for Jagmeet, who also has 12 months to prove his mettle as a leader to continue on after the next election.
Never say never. The NDP has shown that they can make big gains in Quebec and they have support in BC and the Prairies. Personally I hope this doesn't happen since if I had to choose between them I'd hold my nose and vote Liberal but I'm not their target audience obviously.
Should be Bloc and NDP try push policy when they are not given power to do so by the Canadian People?
Sure they were. They got elected and Canada has a system where minority governments are formed. Alberta and Saskatchewan really need to get their #### together and vote for a non Conservative party federally every 8 years or so and extract value from the Federal government.
The Liberals and Conservatives don't really care about Alberta and Saskatchewan.
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Never say never. The NDP has shown that they can make big gains in Quebec and they have support in BC and the Prairies. Personally I hope this doesn't happen since if I had to choose between them I'd hold my nose and vote Liberal but I'm not their target audience obviously.
Unless there is a huge resurgence of progressive values and social programs, this isn't likely any time soon. Historically they just don't have the gravity in BC and the Prairies to make a big enough dent (even Edmonton can only get a few NDP'ers elected at the best of times). They need to target southern Ontario and Quebec but they have a major uphill battle to uproot rural ridings in both provinces to convince them to swing left.
I know there was an uptick in NDP support in Quebec about 12 years ago, but that just hasn't proven to be sustainable politically. Quebecers may be the smartest bunch of voters in the country - they go where their needs can be met. Alberta could learn a thing or two from them.
Unless there is a huge resurgence of progressive values and social programs, this isn't likely any time soon. Historically they just don't have the gravity in BC and the Prairies to make a big enough dent (even Edmonton can only get a few NDP'ers elected at the best of times). They need to target southern Ontario and Quebec but they have a major uphill battle to uproot rural ridings in both provinces to convince them to swing left.
I know there was an uptick in NDP support in Quebec about 12 years ago, but that just hasn't proven to be sustainable politically. Quebecers may be the smartest bunch of voters in the country - they go where their needs can be met. Alberta could learn a thing or two from them.
I agree that it a big hill to climb, and it would take a few elections, but if that is their ambition the first step has to be replacing the Liberals as the progressive option. They were almost there when a worst case scenario hit them with Layton dying and the emergence of Trudeau who is/was basically a celebrity out East. If they are happy to stay as the 3rd/4th party and hope for a Liberal minority every time in order to get some policy through that's fine too.
I agree that it a big hill to climb, and it would take a few elections, but if that is their ambition the first step has to be replacing the Liberals as the progressive option. If they are happy to stay as the 3rd/4th party and hope for a Liberal minority every time in order to get some policy through that's fine too.
Well, conservatives seem to believe the only way to achieve that is to call an early election that puts the Conservatives in power sooner, which I’m sure is great advice that isn’t at all totally loaded with a self-serving ulterior motive.
Don't kid yourself, he's a celebrity out West too, just in more of a Rob Schneider "get TF out of the movie" energy.
Justin Trudeau: Male Gigolo
__________________
@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
I don't think their core messsage is about separating right now. It's about representing Quebec values in a federal Canada. Sovereignty has taken a backseat to ensuring and retaining cultural and economical rights for Quebecers. Heck, the byelection yesterday demonstrated there's not an overarching appetite for the Bloc to begin with; the Libs and NDP were right there too. There isn't some new separatist push from younger voters.
What advantage is there allowing for a Conservative supermajority? What has the PP crew or the CPC said with regards to meeting Bloc platform planks?
The Bloc is not about representing Quebec values in a federated Canada at all. Feel free to look through their website about the values and mission:
Quote:
So that Quebec can govern itself, according to its priorities and values
Quebecers form a distinct people, a nation with its own identity. What makes us a unique nation is based on our culture, our language, our history, our collective heritage, the structure of our economy, our social system, our desire to live together and to endure in history.
We want to make Quebec a country because for a nation, governing itself, for itself and according to its own ends, its own values, its own culture and its own laws, both internally and externally, is essential to achieving its full development.
It is by managing our taxes, our international policy and our laws ourselves that we will be able to achieve our full political, economic, environmental and cultural development.
Quote:
To establish economic policies according to our interests
Instead of spending all its taxes on its own interests, as an independent Quebec would do, the current Quebec sends half of them to Ottawa, which often spends them on programs from which Quebecers do not benefit.
While Quebec has financed its entire hydroelectric network alone, the federal government is currently using our money to subsidize Newfoundland's hydroelectricity, which will compete with ours on American markets.
During the 2008 economic crisis, the federal government invested $14 billion to support Ontario's automobile industry, while Quebec's forestry industry received only $70 million. Almost nothing for our world, in other words!
While Quebec produces clean hydroelectric energy, English Canada's economic development model is based on the production of dirty oil from Alberta's tar sands. Quebec has no interest, neither financial nor environmental, in allowing pipelines, ships and trains full of Alberta oil to pass through its territory. We all remember the tragedy that occurred in Lac-Mégantic...
These few figures show that Quebec does not live off the federal government. For example, when we compare the amounts of equalization transfers per capita, Quebec is even last among the beneficiary provinces.
By becoming an independent nation, Quebec will spend money according to its interests.
Quote:
Independence will open the borders where important decisions are made, allowing Quebec to participate actively in major international forums, to sit at the UN and in Kyoto, and to play a leading role in the Francophonie.
Canada is currently speaking on behalf of Quebec in all international matters: relations with repressive regimes, climate change, international aid, etc.
An independent Quebec will be able to assert its ideas and values internationally. An independent Quebec will have all the levers to fully support its entrepreneurs, artists and athletes in order to shine even more in the world. When will Quebec teams be in international sports competitions?
And so on, and so on. This certainly doesn't sound like their purpose is to maintain their standing within confederation.
The easy out for the Bloc and NDP is to just say that Canadians don't want an early election and they're respecting the wishes of the Canadian people. The polls support this, so it's not really untrue.
The easy out for the Bloc and NDP is to just say that Canadians don't want an early election and they're respecting the wishes of the Canadian people. The polls support this, so it's not really untrue.
Source?
I'm not questioning you, I'd just like to read about it.
T
And so on, and so on. This certainly doesn't sound like their purpose is to maintain their standing within confederation.
If you're going to grab the stuff off their website, you might as well pull a non-partisan source that can take a more objective look (and from a Montreal-based university no less).
In contrast to federal values of multiculturalism, the idea that minority cultural practices are a threat to francophone culture dominates Legault’s immigration policies. Furthermore, Blanchet was criticized during the campaign for telling voters they should opt for candidates who “resemble” them, a statement that was linked to the Quebec government’s anti-diversity stance. Any ideological differences between the parties appear to have been set aside in favour of their shared nationalism.
By channelling Québécois identity into a nationalist platform rather than a separatist one, Legault has created a new trend in Quebec sovereigntist thinking, a trend that Blanchet is now bringing to the federal level.
Quebec voters’ interests appear to have diverted from separatism, and towards gaining more power as a nation within Canada. With the Bloc’s new position of power within the federal government, it remains to be seen whether it will be for the benefit of those who voted for Blanchet’s progressive policies or those who voted on behalf of Bill 21.
Which makes sense, given that ~60% of voters prefer someone other than the Conservatives. So almost all of those voters wouldn't want an election that will surely bring them to power to happen any sooner than necessary.
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If you're going to grab the stuff off their website, you might as well pull a non-partisan source that can take a more objective look (and from a Montreal-based university no less).
The only reason the NDP and Bloc will prop up the Liberals is to fundraise before the next election. if they have the money now, they'll want an election. They know they can't win, it's just whether this is the best time to make gains.
If you're going to grab the stuff off their website, you might as well pull a non-partisan source that can take a more objective look (and from a Montreal-based university no less).
I don't need to turn to other sources to interpret or tell me what the Bloc stands for when the party lays it out in plain language on their official website.
The clearly mention, many times, their need and desire for independence and to be recognized as a country/nation and the benefits associated with that status.
Well, go for it. Read their party platform. Just let me know when they've accomplished that, and why the haven't had a referendum on the issue since 1995.
But just so you know, the rise of Quebec nationalism, as championed by the Coalition Avenir Québec (CAQ) and the Bloc Québécois, has shifted the focus from outright sovereignty to promoting and protecting Quebec’s identity within Canada.
This approach seeks to secure more autonomy for Quebec without breaking away from the rest of Canada. Nationalist policies, such as language protection and cultural preservation, resonate more with current voters than the full separation.
And an article from earlier this year demonstrated that independence is an issue only 35% of Quebecers support:
Doesn't seem like a whole lot of groundswelling to break off as a nation, nor the capacity to be it's own nation at a federal level. Looks like - instead - being a nation within a nation has and continues to be a party approach for the Bloc.
Well, go for it. Read their party platform. Just let me know when they've accomplished that, and why the haven't had a referendum on the issue since 1995.
But just so you know, the rise of Quebec nationalism, as championed by the Coalition Avenir Québec (CAQ) and the Bloc Québécois, has shifted the focus from outright sovereignty to promoting and protecting Quebec’s identity within Canada.
This approach seeks to secure more autonomy for Quebec without breaking away from the rest of Canada. Nationalist policies, such as language protection and cultural preservation, resonate more with current voters than the full separation.
And an article from earlier this year demonstrated that independence is an issue only 35% of Quebecers support:
Doesn't seem like a whole lot of groundswelling to break off as a nation, nor the capacity to be it's own nation at a federal level. Looks like - instead - being a nation within a nation has and continues to be a party approach for the Bloc.
I believe that Blanchet has stated before that while separation/sovereignty is not in the current mandate and an immediate goal it is a long term vision and that it is not a sprint but rather a marathon.
This is from last year at his confidence vote:
Quote:
"The vote of confidence, because it has the word 'confidence,' must be about Quebec … about the responsibility we have to our citizens to become a country."
Blanchet reiterated that the party's main goal is Quebec sovereignty, and mentioned its long-standing collaboration between the separatist Parti Québécois (PQ).
He described his party as a one-stop shop for all sovereigntists but said the PQ was the party's "main vehicle in Quebec." Bloc members adopted a proposal recognizing that its role is to bring separatists of all stripes under one roof while recognizing its historical links to the PQ.
According to PQ leader Paul Saint-Pierre Plamondon, who was present at the convention, the Bloc is at a "historic moment." He affirmed that the PQ will use all its resources to ensure that the Bloc breaks records in the next federal election.
Blanchet attacked the federal government, the fossil fuel industry and the British monarchy in a convention speech, saying "Ottawa is ready to sacrifice everything for oil." He accused Canada of being a "petromonarchy."
"The problem is the fans of the British royal family, the oil and monarchy lovers who use your money to attack our values," he said to a cheering crowd.
^I love that you tried to find an article to affirm your own distorted narrative versus the Bloc's own website
It was brought up with Scheer during questioning on CTV news a few days ago where they mentioned that polling showed the majority of Canadians don’t want an early election. Albeit if I’m recalling correctly that it wasn’t a large majority, somewhere around 60%.
