“We need people to be more engaged. We need people to understand what’s at stake in this upcoming election. Obviously, it would have been nicer to be able to — to win and hold Verdun — but there is more work to do and we’re going to stay focused on doing it,” Trudeau said before his cabinet met Tuesday morning.
I don't even know what to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizaro86
Wait, he said Canadians need to more engaged? At first blush, I thought he said that they (the Liberal party members) needed to more be engaged. I guess I was wrong.
He's blaming the voter base? Umm okay haha.
No way he's going to step down then. Probably just call voters racists and unCanadian in a year.
Last edited by chemgear; 09-17-2024 at 08:03 PM.
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For starters, I dont condone abuse of Political Officials with the current sole exception of Danielle Smith. I'd play the bagpipes at her funeral and I've never played the bagpipes in my life. It'd be an experience. For everyone.
That being said...what is Singh doing? Someone muttered something behind him, he didnt see who said it and he wants to create a confrontation?
Why?
I dont think 'Corrupted Bastard' is accurate, but Singh did make a Faustian Bargain in order to try and get something and, lets be honest, 'caring about Canadians?'
He cares about trying to save his cushy gig. Period. If some Canadians happen to benefit in the interim I'm sure he couldn't care less.
Man, this is just dumb. Even old PP, who I think has become the worst kind of pandering dweeb, is not someone I would say “couldn’t care less” about Canadians benefiting. Singh may have the wrong idea about that, he might have an inflated ego, he might be out of touch with what kind of things Canadians actually benefit from, but not caring?
Right or wrong, all of these guys think Canadians benefit from what they have to offer. And for the majority of them that’s why they take the job, because it’s I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but being a politician is a nightmare job at this point.
The guy is being pushed by hecklers to the point where he actually sticks up for himself and you think all he cares about is his “cushy” job? lol. You’re smarter than that.
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Yeah, the deal the NDP made with the Liberals was for the good of Canadians. It’s pretty cynical to think that Singh somehow benefitted from that. He could have sat idly by and coasted until the next election and reaped the rewards of completing his term.
But Singh got something done that actually helped Canadians. More than that PP has ever done in his time in Parliament.
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It'll be tough for the NDP to distance themselves from the Liberals.
The conservatives will keep calling confidence votes, and if the NDP don't support the government it'll fall.
There was a pundit on CTV today and he said it succinctly.
If Singh votes with the Liberals on a confidence motion, PP accusing Singh of being a phony when he said he ripped up the agreement. PP wins.
If Singh votes against the govt and the Bloc allows the govt to fall, The NDP don't have the treasury, PP wins.
If Singh votes against the govt and the Bloc steps in to save the government, PP can say that the Liberals have made a deal with separatists. PP wins.
Singh was really foolish on their comms and strategy for the last couple of years he jumped on X everyday and went after the Liberals, then either voted with Trudeau, or had him MPs shut down corruption investigations or at the very least delayed the investigations in committee. He lost credibility there.
Now with his flip flop on the Carbon tax and using PP's with the laughable Liberal Conserative partner ship line that he got laughed at in the hoouse, he look even worse.
Whoever is advising Singh, has messed up.
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I really wouldn't be surprised to see an election this winter, or in the spring at the latest.
The NDP have really painted themselves into a corner with all the extreme rhetoric towards the Liberals. All they had to do was say they are leaving the Supply/Confidence deal because they don't think they can get any more from the Liberals and that they want to start communicating to Canadians how they need a mandate in order to make true change, fight for working people, etc etc. Instead Singh went over the top painting the Liberals as the worst thing ever and they need to go asap. He's going to look foolish every time he votes confidence in them.
Bloc are interesting. You'd think that they would rather deal with the Liberals than a majority CPC government but would they really? At the moment the Bloc could easily win a bunch more seats in Quebec if an election were held soon. They aren't going to make threats right now until they see what the Liberals are going to offer for their support but I saw a scrum this morning (somewhere) where Blanchet was saying that people tell him every day that they want an election. If the Liberals don't give him a lot he can easily justify voting no confidence. The Bloc's situation is looking pretty rosy right now and is unlikely to get any better in the next year.
These parties have to be looking at an election as an inevitability. If they go sooner they fight against a weakened Liberal party headed by Trudeau who is not popular to put it nicely. If they wait they run the risk of Trudeau stepping down, if he does that he will surely prorogue and the Liberals will re-emerge in the Spring with a fresh new leader and (likely) a fresh agenda. That could be okay for the NDP/Bloc if the new leader is a Trudeau flunky with baggage or it could be a lot worse if someone strong/charismatic emerges from the contest a la 2015 Trudeau. The Liberals have the most resilient voting base, their rock bottom is still well over 20%, give their supporters an excuse to come home and they will. We've seen many times where their demise was predicted and they came back strong. If you have to go soon anyway might want to go against the devil you know. Things are unlikely to get better for the NDP/Bloc in the short term but they can get a lot worse.
Should be an interesting fall sitting.
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The rumour is also floating out there that 4 or 5 more cabinet members are going to announce their resignations soon.
Trudeau was also going to be addressing his caucus today, I don't expect he'll be stepping down, but he might be attempting to stomp out a growing rebellion in his party.
At last weeks Party Retreat in Nanaimo 40 Liberal caucus members didn't make the trip.
Also the Liberals have granted a opposition day next Tuesday and its expected that PP will be introducing a very simple non confidence motion.
"The House has no confidence in the Prime Minister and the Government."
This is pretty nasty, as it forces the Bloc or NDP to declare that they have confidence in the Liberals in front of all of Canada.
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Again, why would they agree to vote yes to a non-confidence? The Bloc and NDP can make far more policy gains with a faltering Liberal government willing to concede than a supermajority Conservative government that won't give them the time of day outright. It makes no sense to vote for a non-confidence, at least IMO.
At the end of the day the NDP and Bloc serve their constituents, and utilizing the current government to deliver for them is the most practical solution.
Again, why would they agree to vote yes to a non-confidence? The Bloc and NDP can make far more policy gains with a faltering Liberal government willing to concede than a supermajority Conservative government that won't give them the time of day outright. It makes no sense to vote for a non-confidence, at least IMO.
At the end of the day the NDP and Bloc serve their constituents, and utilizing the current government to deliver for them is the most practical solution.
That’s why Pierre keeps trying to convince Canadians that the NDP has to call an election now that they’ve ended their supply and confidence agreement, because he knows that they don’t and he doesn’t want them getting anything passed that his party will look bad for trying to axe later.
The only way I see the NDP voting non-confidence to force an election is if the CPC gives an assurance that they won’t axe the new dental and pharmacare programs.
Again, why would they agree to vote yes to a non-confidence? The Bloc and NDP can make far more policy gains with a faltering Liberal government willing to concede than a supermajority Conservative government that won't give them the time of day outright. It makes no sense to vote for a non-confidence, at least IMO.
At the end of the day the NDP and Bloc serve their constituents, and utilizing the current government to deliver for them is the most practical solution.
Trudeau's government is over. He won't be Prime Minister beyond the next election whenever that may be between now and next fall. His departure of staff, cabinet ministers etc. all but confirm there's no calculus available where that is the case (If it's the Liberals it will be under a different leader and policy platform agenda which would reset the terms of engagement from any corporation with Trudeau). Any consideration of policy gains has to take into account that reality so the Bloc and NDP have to evaluate what potential policy gains they can extract from the Liberals and the potential longevity of said policy gains lasting beyond the next election by prolonging the inevitable.
Based on the by-election results it might be in their best electoral interests to go now when the Liberals are at their lowest. Bloc's potential for taking seats in Montreal has to be appetizing for them. Additionally the NDP retaining their Winnipeg seat and coming in strong in Montreal could signal big gains for them too.
Last edited by Cowboy89; 09-18-2024 at 10:05 AM.
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Again, why would they agree to vote yes to a non-confidence? The Bloc and NDP can make far more policy gains with a faltering Liberal government willing to concede than a supermajority Conservative government that won't give them the time of day outright. It makes no sense to vote for a non-confidence, at least IMO.
At the end of the day the NDP and Bloc serve their constituents, and utilizing the current government to deliver for them is the most practical solution.
Because an election is coming soon no matter what they do. Continuing to prop up the Liberals hasn't been helping the NDP gain any popularity and the Bloc is in a great position to make gains. Singh isn't going to win the next election barring a miracle, his plan should be to replace the Liberals as the official opposition and build off of that. Either way they'll need to fight an election in the next year, they might decide it's better to go when the Liberals are weak and Trudeau is really unpopular rather than give them time to recover which they've shown they can do time and time again.
Edit: Also, what he said ^^^
Last edited by Jacks; 09-18-2024 at 10:04 AM.
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So if an election is coming, why would they want to let the Conservatives cut them out of policymaking early?
Ending the supply agreement does not equal a vote of non-confidence. In fact, both the NDP and Bloc would be wise to hold press conferences that says the next 12 months will be pushing policy agenda items through the House.
Singh isn't going to win of course, but he's going to get some wins by pushing actual NDP policy planks through. Same with the Bloc.
Also, an extra 12 months to continue building a war chest, and get NDP values ahead of Liberal values in the public narrative is a huge bonus.
Most reasonable Canadians who would vote NDP or Bloc will see the opportunity for their respective parties to make some gains. What gains are to be had with a Conservative supermajority early? To stick to to Trudeau who everyone already knows is on borrowed time? None.
There's tons of politcking yet to do before a vote of non-confidence IMO. They may be delaying the inevitable, but it would be completely unwise to acquiesce to Milhouse's demands in the short term.
So if an election is coming, why would they want to let the Conservatives cut them out of policymaking early?
Ending the supply agreement does not equal a vote of non-confidence. In fact, both the NDP and Bloc would be wise to hold press conferences that says the next 12 months will be pushing policy agenda items through the House.
Singh isn't going to win of course, but he's going to get some wins by pushing actual NDP policy planks through. Same with the Bloc.
Also, an extra 12 months to continue building a war chest, and get NDP values ahead of Liberal values in the public narrative is a huge bonus.
Most reasonable Canadians who would vote NDP or Bloc will see the opportunity for their respective parties to make some gains. What gains are to be had with a Conservative supermajority early? To stick to to Trudeau who everyone already knows is on borrowed time? None.
There's tons of politcking yet to do before a vote of non-confidence IMO. They may be delaying the inevitable, but it would be completely unwise to acquiesce to Milhouse's demands in the short term.
Should be Bloc and NDP try push policy when they are not given power to do so by the Canadian People?
Yes. They don't represent 'Canadian people' as a broad stroke. They represent their constituents and their voting bases. And in the Bloc's case, they certainly don't represent the 'Canadian people". It's the perfect opportunity to pull strings. This is a glorious window of opportunity for them.
So if an election is coming, why would they want to let the Conservatives cut them out of policymaking early?
Ending the supply agreement does not equal a vote of non-confidence. In fact, both the NDP and Bloc would be wise to hold press conferences that says the next 12 months will be pushing policy agenda items through the House.
Singh isn't going to win of course, but he's going to get some wins by pushing actual NDP policy planks through. Same with the Bloc.
Also, an extra 12 months to continue building a war chest, and get NDP values ahead of Liberal values in the public narrative is a huge bonus.
Most reasonable Canadians who would vote NDP or Bloc will see the opportunity for their respective parties to make some gains. What gains are to be had with a Conservative supermajority early? To stick to to Trudeau who everyone already knows is on borrowed time? None.
There's tons of politcking yet to do before a vote of non-confidence IMO. They may be delaying the inevitable, but it would be completely unwise to acquiesce to Milhouse's demands in the short term.
But Singh hasn't been getting any credit for those policy wins. Whether they go tomorrow, 3 months from now or 1 year from now they will still be in a bad fiscal position and will have to borrow the large majority of the funds needed to fight an election. They need to start thinking of when is the most advantageous (or least damaging) for them. If they give the Liberals time to recover they guarantee to remain a fringe party, if they manage to leapfrog the Liberals (long shot I know) they have a chance to form government in the future which should be the long term objective.
Should be Bloc and NDP try push policy when they are not given power to do so by the Canadian People?
Everyone with a seat was given power to push policy forward by the Canadian People, that’s how our elections work. Suggesting otherwise is to suggest that the majority of voting Canadians should have no voice in policy.
What Liberal recovery will there be? Like typical Canadian pendulum politics, nine years in power (going on 10) is the max of any federal government. Trudeau shows no signs of leaving, and the polls do not reflect a Liberal resurgence. What threat is there?
The NDP will never form government. Not enough support in southern Ontario or Quebec to hit that critical mass. And with an expected supermajority for the CPC, this is as good as it gets for Jagmeet, who also has 12 months to prove his mettle as a leader to continue on after the next election.
I just don't see a vote of non-confidence as a strategic move. However, I'm not a political analyst or a party insider so my guess is as good as anyone's.
Yes. They don't represent 'Canadian people' as a broad stroke. They represent their constituents and their voting bases. And in the Bloc's case, they certainly don't represent the 'Canadian people". It's the perfect opportunity to pull strings. This is a glorious window of opportunity for them.
The other thing to think about with the Bloc is how serious are they about their core message of separating?
If that is still their long term objective then they are better off taking a bunch more seats in Quebec and then fighting against the evil Conservatives while complaining that Quebec is being ignored and the feds are hostile toward the province. I'm not saying that's a good thing, obviously it's not, but from a political perspective it gives them ammo.
I don't think their core messsage is about separating right now. It's about representing Quebec values in a federal Canada. Sovereignty has taken a backseat to ensuring and retaining cultural and economical rights for Quebecers. Heck, the byelection yesterday demonstrated there's not an overarching appetite for the Bloc to begin with; the Libs and NDP were right there too. There isn't some new separatist push from younger voters.
What advantage is there allowing for a Conservative supermajority? What has the PP crew or the CPC said with regards to meeting Bloc platform planks?
Everything happening now - by-election losses, polling, Liberal resignations, etc. - points to Trudeau being done. One thing that could play into Trudeau stepping down as the Liberal leader or the success of a Non-confidence vote is the G7 in Kananaskis / Canada next June. The G7 could be Trudeau's last hooray and although there is a lot of noise from Poilievre and Singh and now Blanchet I think there is still some decency and respect in Canadian politics such that Trudeau will still be Prime Minister and the host of G7.
