If true, then Harris’s numbers shouldn’t increase among committed voters because those are hard core who will never move. Her greatest opportunity then seems to be uncommitted voters, and those who don’t vote but might be combined to do so.
Yeah, her path has always been convincing people who are leaning towards not voting to do so.
It's wild that someone who was involved in something like that is still allowed to run for President. You would imagine that someone who attempts to subvert their government would automatically be disqualified for ever holding any seat, let alone the government's top seat ever again at minimum.
In any other democratic country, he'd very likely be disqualified from even running. Only in the U.S. would they allow a treasonous convicted felon to run for the highest office in the land. The dude attempted an actual real life coup FFS, and yet here we are. It's absolutely shameful.
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In any other democratic country, he'd very likely be disqualified from even running. Only in the U.S. would they allow a treasonous convicted felon to run for the highest office in the land. The dude attempted an actual real life coup FFS, and yet here we are. It's absolutely shameful.
The thing is, I don't mind the idea that anyone, even felons, can try and run for President. Not all felons are made equal and we know many civil rights leaders and political activists have been to prison across the world.
If the US was even close to what it professes to be, this guy would have been to jail for fraud 10 times over before the idea of president was even a thought. THAT'S where the failure is. And then, yes, for some reason being afraid to prosecute someone for real crimes because why? They control a mob? All the more reason. This is a country that dealt with LA riots, self-bombing Philadelphia, all sorts off awful crowd suppression of people fighting for REAL injustice, now all of a sudden all that power is afraid? Pathetic.
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Alot of the progressive gains are going to be lost, and I think with that, some of the cultural acceptance of marginalized people and respect for personal rights. Ironically, the right's insatiable defense of personal freedoms will likely end up damaging personal freedoms for everyone that doesn't fall into their preferred narrative of what a true 'citizen' is.
Then on top of that, the right's inability to tackle existential challenges will create more problems with the likes of climate change, resource depletion, pandemics and global health crises, nuclear and biological warfare, AI and technology omnipotence, wealth inequality, unemployment, global debt, supply chain vulnerability, displacement, and the destruction of social institutions to support the vulnerable.
We may need to go down a dark road politically to truly understand our place in a changing world. I don't want this to happen, but if people really think we can put our trust in bloviated turnips like Trump, PP, Trupalla/Wiedel, Meloni, Le Pen (who lost by a hair), Wilders and Abascal, then perhaps it's a growing pain we'll just have to endure.
It sucks, but it's obviously coming. People want right-wing populism and blitzkreig propaganda that blurs lies from reality is keeping that voltage high.
The question is (and I've posed it before) is the right wing movement gaining traction simply because of greed, racism, sexism etc... refugees getting into a country and then making sure other refugees can come in behind them because they are 'different'
Or is there overcorrection? Have the progressives overcorrected and left people behind? Trudeau is tanking just because he's tanking, not because of some great populous movement by PP. This is not Trump vs the establishment.
Canada is a two party rule country. PP is pushing things a bit further to the right but nothing outrageous that is making him win. It's timing, any conservative leader extreme or moderate would win right now as the Liberals self destruct.
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PP is existing in a right-wing populist political vaccuum that is clearly using cues from Trump's campaign. For example, creating a war on traditional media, playing footsies with fringe extremists, and using colorful language that fires up right-wing bases ('woke', 'socialism', etc.)
This is the most right-wing version of Conservatives in a 'two party rule country' and there is no sign they're going to abate with the rhetoric. Even if they win a supermajority, there is an element of their base (they continually signal to) that will want firery rhetoric turned into action. Are they going to kill the CBC off entirely? Are they going to ban pandemic restrictions? Are they going to use the notwithstanding clause to just axe policies they don't like?
He's using the vaccuum to say - and likely do - things that no previous Conservative government has done in this country. He's not PM yet, but he's promising to fix everything from housing, to immmgration, to crime, to taxes. He better start thinking on how he's going to deliver once he becomes PM. And he's going to play the blame game when he can't deliver on these things as reality sets in an actual governing gets hard.
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Canada is a two party rule country. PP is pushing things a bit further to the right but nothing outrageous that is making him win. It's timing, any conservative leader extreme or moderate would win right now as the Liberals self destruct.
While functionally true, the fact that a significant third party like the NDP exists strong enough to take 10-25% of the total vote shows the country overall is left-leaning. The only reason there's a threat to Liberal power is that the NDP is withdrawing its support for not being left enough. I also think overall Canadian's aren't as entrenched in their political identity as American's are. I've voted CON, LIB, NDP and GRN all at different times for different reasons. As someone who considers themselves on the progressive end, possibly extremely so in some cases, I can be convinced to vote Conservative in Canada. Probably not by current conservatives, but theoretically.
There's something to be said for the "pendulum" idea, but if the pendulum is swinging "too far" in favour of giving people personal freedom, I'd rather be swinging in that direction than back to pulling them away.
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The thing is, I don't mind the idea that anyone, even felons, can try and run for President. Not all felons are made equal and we know many civil rights leaders and political activists have been to prison across the world.
Perhaps, with exceptions that include anyone convicted of attempting an insurrection.
They all supported the basic institutions, oath of office, peaceful transition of power, and the constitutional framework of the Federal Government. They may have had evil plans, but they mostly operated within those guard rails.
You can't be serious. How much respect did the Bush administration have for the Geneva convention, Habeas Corpus, etc., etc., etc.?
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While functionally true, the fact that a significant third party like the NDP exists strong enough to take 10-25% of the total vote shows the country overall is left-leaning. The only reason there's a threat to Liberal power is that the NDP is withdrawing its support for not being left enough. I also think overall Canadian's aren't as entrenched in their political identity as American's are. I've voted CON, LIB, NDP and GRN all at different times for different reasons. As someone who considers themselves on the progressive end, possibly extremely so in some cases, I can be convinced to vote Conservative in Canada. Probably not by current conservatives, but theoretically.
There's something to be said for the "pendulum" idea, but if the pendulum is swinging "too far" in favour of giving people personal freedom, I'd rather be swinging in that direction than back to pulling them away.
Yeah, I went O'Toole over Trudeau on the last round. Won't be able to bring myself to vote for PP though.
You can't be serious. How much respect did the Bush administration have for the Geneva convention, Habeas Corpus, etc., etc., etc.?
Internal versus external is the difference. Trump pushed the boundary on breaking longstanding but non-encoded procedures in the US. Has any US government cared about your list?
Internal versus external is the difference. Trump pushed the boundary on breaking longstanding but non-encoded procedures in the US. Has any US government cared about your list?
There are ample examples of the Bush administration skirting U.S. law to enrich themselves and the people around them. I don't like Trump, but let's not start romanticizing one of the most murderous and ethically bankrupt regimes in U.S. history.
Trump could spend 3 terms in office and would have trouble accumulating a third of the body count and geopolitical strife that the Bush admin is responsible for.
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Perhaps, with exceptions that include anyone convicted of attempting an insurrection.
It shouldn't prevent him from running. It's should put him in prison and be disqualifying in the eyes of the electorate. It's alarming that it's hasn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubecube
There are ample examples of the Bush administration skirting U.S. law to enrich themselves and the people around them. I don't like Trump, but let's not start romanticizing one of the most murderous and ethically bankrupt regimes in U.S. history.
Trump could spend 3 terms in office and would have trouble accumulating a third of the body count and geopolitical strife that the Bush admin is responsible for.
Yes agreed. I really think The Democrat campaign is missing a big opportunity to just straight up stop pointing at Trump himself as a cause of problems and point to him and the disparity in which we're living as a symptom of the Republican party's decade's long attempt to strip rights and investment in the American people in favour of enriching themselves and their friends. It will not stop if Trump loses. It's in the Democratic Party too and they would do right to acknowledge that as part of their own failings. Because the mere fact that this moronic blowhard can challenge a proper candidate is, itself, an indictment on the Democratic Party.
It shouldn't prevent him from running. It's should put him in prison and be disqualifying in the eyes of the electorate. It's alarming that it's hasn't.
Yes agreed. I really think The Democrat campaign is missing a big opportunity to just straight up stop pointing at Trump himself as a cause of problems and point to him and the disparity in which we're living as a symptom of the Republican party's decade's long attempt to strip rights and investment in the American people in favour of enriching themselves and their friends. It will not stop if Trump loses. It's in the Democratic Party too and they would do right to acknowledge that as part of their own failings. Because the mere fact that this moronic blowhard can challenge a proper candidate is, itself, an indictment on the Democratic Party.
People were tired of proper candidates in 2016. Trump swept through proper candidates in the Republican primary. In fact, Ted Cruz, the other non-establishment candidate was 2nd. Then he beat the most establishment candidate in Hillary.
But that act is old and boring now. People know what Trump is and what he's not and I can't see people other than diehards still falling for it.
You are right though, the Democratic messaging is poor. Not only are they not pointing at Trump himself as the cause of all the current problems, they're not really saying anything. Kamala should be debating Trump anytime, anywhere, even on Hannity.
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Last edited by GirlySports; 09-18-2024 at 11:23 AM.
There are ample examples of the Bush administration skirting U.S. law to enrich themselves and the people around them. I don't like Trump, but let's not start romanticizing one of the most murderous and ethically bankrupt regimes in U.S. history.
Trump could spend 3 terms in office and would have trouble accumulating a third of the body count and geopolitical strife that the Bush admin is responsible for.
I know but Bush wouldn't have pushed for a Jan 6th style insurrection. The Bush regime was bad but Trump is a different type of threat.
I know but Bush wouldn't have pushed for a Jan 6th style insurrection. The Bush regime was bad but Trump is a different type of threat.
That can't be the only barometer. Harm on a global scale was much worse under the Bush admin than it was under Trump, and I don't think a second Trump term would top that.
Hell, the Bush administration is a big reason why we have Trump in the first place.
That can't be the only barometer. Harm on a global scale was much worse under the Bush admin than it was under Trump, and I don't think a second Trump term would top that.
Sure, but imagine a Bush presidency without any of the guardrails that Trump is trying to destroy. The US with a Russian style government would be very concerning and it continues to inch its way there.
Sure, but imagine a Bush presidency without any of the guardrails that Trump is trying to destroy. The US with a Russian style government would be very concerning and it continues to inch its way there.
I'm not disagreeing with that. What I don't like seeing is people celebrating the Bush admin for "following the rules" domestically, while wreaking absolute havoc on the rest of the world.
Sure, but imagine a Bush presidency without any of the guardrails that Trump is trying to destroy. The US with a Russian style government would be very concerning and it continues to inch its way there.
Remember when Bush was seen as a goofy speaker?
This sounds eloquent today!
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