Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by #-3

I for one wish Curves would answer the challenge put forth here. This generally seems to be how the economic question goes with the UPCers these days.

UPCV "I just can't support a party that is bad for the economy"
NDPV "you mean the UPC? shows a bunch of statistics about how Alberta does better relative to global oil prices under more moderate governments, or even center right governments like the ANDP"

UPCV "Well I just want them to leave the market alone and not pick winners and losers"
NDPV "well you didn't answer my question, but you mean like setting up a propaganda arm of the government to advertise of a specific industry, or shutting down whole industries because they don't align with the way you would like the world to be"

UPCV "Do you know how much it costs to screw in a light bulb"
NDPV "Well I've answered both of your challenges, and you've ignored mine, but while not defending that specific program, it did cost less than these 45 bone headed things the UPC has done."

UPCV "yeah but theirs litter boxes in elementary schools everywhere"
NDPV "you don't even know that your 12 year old is making fun of you when they tell you that, do you?"

The AB NDP actually had a strong platform in the 23 election but they made some key mistakes which cost voters and gave the UCP some life.

They went a little too hard on the contrast between Smith and Notley in terms of personalities. Although Smith isn't Mrs. popular, she is popular enough to have been elected as leader in multiple parties. Clearly enough people don't mind her. I also think they went really hard on the UCP for Covid related things when a lot of people were done talking about it. No city, province or country did a really good job of Covid overall when looking at it from a broad lens.

The corporate tax hike is pretty well thought of as being a very key mistake. Raising the rate from 8% to 11% starts enough conversations that it starts to get the ball moving on "we can't afford these guys" The NDP also didn't give a strong enough argument on WHY raising the corporate tax rate was justified considering the budget forecasts were decent. It allowed the UCP to proclaim "The NDP is raising taxes 40%"

We can debate the policy all we want but during an election when you are at a disadvantage, you don't want to put policies like that out there as it's a very very hard sell, despite it being somewhat logical.

To paint a reverse picture, logically having a sales tax in AB and reintroducing the in house provincial carbon taxes makes more sense for AB. Do we see any Conservatives pushing hard for this? No cause you can't sell it.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I do think the NDP could benefit from a more rural engagement and election platform. They made very strategic mistakes there back in 2015 that has cost them votes regarding rules for farmers/workers and more.

I don't think the play is to flip a few seats in Calgary and hope you are going to have staying power in AB, you need something more long term than that. Although I am a conservative voter, I didn't vote UCP in the 2023 election. I really don't blame the NDP for some of the economic challenges that arose during their time in office.

We will see what happens with Nenshi

[Fuzz]

That basically boils down to "lie to voters and do whatever after," which I guess seems to work in Alberta, so maybe they should have done that.

[D as in David]

I'll take this moment to reiterate how much I despise the UCP for pissing me off so much with the direction they're taking Alberta in that it drove me to become active in politics.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That basically boils down to "lie to voters and do whatever after," which I guess seems to work in Alberta, so maybe they should have done that.

I mean I guess that is true but that also applies to everybody. There is a saying my father says in our mother tongue. "All pigs have the same noses"

The reality is that everybody lies and BS's the electorate across the board. Literally politics 101 in every country

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I mean I guess that is true but that also applies to everybody. There is a saying my father says in our mother tongue. "All pigs have the same noses"

The reality is that everybody lies and BS's the electorate across the board. Literally politics 101 in every country

Ok, but Notley was being honest with putting the large business tax back where it belongs, and in line with the rest of Canada. And then the UCP lied to the electorate about what they were proposing, and people bought it. So no, they aren't all the same. And we shouldn't reward the dishonest ones, but that's generally what you are saying. Just because your father has a nice folksy saying, doesn't mean it is a universal truth. It's basically an excuse to justify awful people by saying everyone is awful, so it doesn't matter who you vote for.

[PaperBagger'14]

I can’t believe how vile this is. Religion has no place in government and even less place in health care. Absolute crock of ####.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I can’t believe how vile this is. Religion has no place in government and even less place in health care. Absolute crock of ####.

Woah there! Jesus healed the sick! If you've got Leprosy that guy is your man!

I am unfamiliar with many of his other talents, but I understand he was a real hit at AA get togethers.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Regorium

After all the fixed fees, my 8c/kwh fixed rate easily becomes 23c/kwh. Other provinces have much lower fixed fees. Are we sure that it's referencing the RRO and not just a real calculation of fixed fees?



I don't see any real issue with the numbers being presented in the report based on my personal experience with the all-in cost in AB vs other provinces.

It's all in the Twitter thread.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by curves2000

They went a little too hard on the contrast between Smith and Notley in terms of personalities. Although Smith isn't Mrs. popular, she is popular enough to have been elected as leader in multiple parties. Clearly enough people don't mind her.

Anyone who was paying attention in the run-up to the election should have seen how bad Smith is. The weight of video evidence alone was staggering, but if you just dialled in for the debate she was super-normal and let people dismiss all the concerns they'd heard about as just 'grainy' gotcha videos.

Agreed on the tax hike. In trying to have a responsible, fully-costed platform they gave the UCP an easy target. Make it even 10% and argue that it's just returning to historical norms - they'd have won the few extra Calgary seats they needed. Serves them right for bringing an actual celebrity bank economist onto their campaign team

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

The BC Liberals were in power from 2001-2014. They were essentially tied with the NDP last election, where the NDP had to caucus with the green party to form government. In their post mortem they decided to shed the "Liberal" name and become BC United. They'll likely get 0 seats this election

You can upgrade "likely get 0 seats" to "absolutely will get 0 seats".

https://globalnews.ca/news/10719653/...pend-campaign/

[#-3]

Originally Posted by curves2000

The NDP need real world policy, pro business and pro small business owner mindsets and really being able to connect with rural and smaller town voters to a much higher degree.

Would a name change help? Yes it would in a small way but to borrow a quote I heard years ago, "If your kid was struggling in school, would you change his or her name?"

Originally Posted by curves2000

The AB NDP actually had a strong platform in the 23 election but they made some key mistakes which cost voters and gave the UCP some life.

The corporate tax hike is pretty well thought of as being a very key mistake. Raising the rate from 8% to 11% starts enough conversations that it starts to get the ball moving on "we can't afford these guys" The NDP also didn't give a strong enough argument on WHY raising the corporate tax rate was justified considering the budget forecasts were decent. It allowed the UCP to proclaim "The NDP is raising taxes 40%"

I don't think the play is to flip a few seats in Calgary and hope you are going to have staying power in AB, you need something more long term than that. Although I am a conservative voter, I didn't vote UCP in the 2023 election. I really don't blame the NDP for some of the economic challenges that arose during their time in office.

First if you didn't vote UPC, I think that is great. As you claim to be a conservative, I have a lot of respect for people who reject the CINO party that we are saddled with in Alberta (conservative in name only).

I do think there is a contradiction in saying that the ANDP needs real world policies and that saying that they lost the election because they were realistic about what a normal business tax structure looks like. I also think it's somewhat disingenuous to trot out that 40% increase number when we all know 20% of it was a correction from a policy that was digging a hole in Alberta budget, and is 40% in scale but not absolute terms which is lost on most of the populous, and that the tax is only levied on profits which again is lost on most.

I appreciate that the politics was bad, but I think it's indicative of typical short cited right wing thinking to say that policy was bad, when you know the stated reason behind it was to bring us more in line with other jurisdictions.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Locke

Woah there! Jesus healed the sick! If you've got Leprosy that guy is your man!

Rumour has it that Judas Iscariot has an ownership stake in a for-profit leprosy care provider.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Rumour has it that Judas Iscariot has an ownership stake in a for-profit leprosy care provider.

I knew it!

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get bags of silver coins? The guy doesnt even take Debit! And Heaven help you if all you've got is Credit Card tap!

That guy is worse than American Express!

All around jerkface that guy!

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by #-3

First if you didn't vote UPC, I think that is great. As you claim to be a conservative, I have a lot of respect for people who reject the CINO party that we are saddled with in Alberta (conservative in name only).

I do think there is a contradiction in saying that the ANDP needs real world policies and that saying that they lost the election because they were realistic about what a normal business tax structure looks like. I also think it's somewhat disingenuous to trot out that 40% increase number when we all know 20% of it was a correction from a policy that was digging a hole in Alberta budget, and is 40% in scale but not absolute terms which is lost on most of the populous, and that the tax is only levied on profits which again is lost on most.

I appreciate that the politics was bad, but I think it's indicative of typical short cited right wing thinking to say that policy was bad, when you know the stated reason behind it was to bring us more in line with other jurisdictions.

You and I may follow things like the corporate tax rate in AB a little closer than others may, but that doesn't mean it's a strong sell. The 40% figure as you know is the difference between 8-11%.

I agree with you on short term thinking on the right but I also think we need longer term, pragmatic solutions on the left, heck I think we need a strong economic and long term solution for the country but that is a different story for a different thread.

Do I think the NDP can win the next election? Quite possibly as the UCP are sputtering along. Will Nenshi wake up the UCP to be better on their game? Maybe.

Alberta politics is never boring, I will say that

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Dont forget she still has her plan for her private police force going on.

And she hasnt forgotten about ******* with pensions either.

I mean

https://twitter.com/user/status/1828883267002523675

Basically, I'm at the point where I say eff to the UCP and eff to anyone who voted for these terrible human beings.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I have said it before and I will say it again, I do think the NDP could benefit from a more rural engagement and election platform. They made very strategic mistakes there back in 2015 that has cost them votes regarding rules for farmers/workers and more.

I don't think the play is to flip a few seats in Calgary and hope you are going to have staying power in AB, you need something more long term than that. Although I am a conservative voter, I didn't vote UCP in the 2023 election. I really don't blame the NDP for some of the economic challenges that arose during their time in office.

We will see what happens with Nenshi

Rural votes are pretty much worthless to the NDP. Every plausible flip is in Calgary (and Lethbridge-East).

The margins are so absurd in truly rural ridings that it's pointless to chase them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by MRCboicgy

I mean

https://twitter.com/user/status/1828883267002523675

Basically, I'm at the point where I say eff to the UCP and eff to anyone who voted for these terrible human beings.

Eff anyone who didn’t vote against them, quite frankly.

[Looch City]

I don't think it's Smith's their intention to bring religion into politics. It's all, simply, part of the grift. Sell off public services to private entities that her friends own.

It's all so on the nose too. She really doesn't give a ####.

Make a few extra bucks while the Berta public still votes for you no matter what? Easy money.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Eff anyone who didn’t vote against them, quite frankly.

I had a very interesting chat with my MLA (Matt Jones) before the last election. He came to my door canvassing and I told him I couldn’t vote for him based on Danielle Smith and the more hardline right views that the party seems to support.

Interestingly enough he didn’t even try dissuade me from my position. He said get a UCP membership and vote for the leader internally because my vote will count for significantly more based on proportion as opposed to a general vote. He wasn’t wrong and if I had to read into the inflection in our chat, he doesn’t like the direction either. He’s just sucking at the accounts payable teet. But really he isn’t wrong in another sense. Get more involved.

[btimbit]

And it'll cost even more money to undo the UCP's damage, which will just lend more credence to "Durr everyone but rightwing nutjobs just spend money!"


Can't wait to move