American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Slanter]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

It’s like Trump is trying to lose this election with his stupid, infuriating comments. Medal of Honor added to the list yesterday.

That one is just amazingly stupid. Sometimes he says stupid things that you can at least understand plays to his base. But that's just a total loss. Wow.

[timun]

Donald Trump has already said all sorts of disparaging #### about wounded and killed veterans. Honest question, because I don't follow American politics closely: what's different about him ####-talking Medal of Honor recipients? How does that move the needle when all the other dumb crap hadn't?

[Slanter]

Well, "normally" he's disparaging people he has a beef with. Like John McCain, and that guy who's kid died in service. There have been some non-public comments reported.

This just seems totally self-inflicted. But you're right, it's consistent with his view of military service as being for suckers and losers. So it shouldn't be surprising.

But it must drive his supporters crazy, because it's a total non-winner

[puffnstuff]

I see it as him taking his disparagement a step further. Stating that the person he gave the Medal of Freedom to would be equal to a CMOH winner and that maybe even better because they didnt have injuries. Veterans, active duty and basically all non cult members know the only reason he gave that medal was because she donated a buttload of money.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Slanter

But it must drive his supporters crazy, because it's a total non-winner

Do you know what his supporters, like the true cultists, are actually like? These people are fuelled by pure hatred and it doesn't specifically matter who Trump is hating, as long as he is hating someone they are loving it. He's already attacked service members in the past, will again in the future, so long as it's a generic service member he's attacking and not someone who is, for instance, an "anti-woke" service member, he's basically fine. Like any cult leader he will be able to persuade his followers that he is right. Give Trump credit for this, he is smart enough to know what drives his supporters. Going to some happy, positive message will cost him far more voters than attacking service members.

At this point it's very clear they are going back to the 2016 strategy of trying to dominate every news cycle with outlandish ####, both so Harris gets no airtime and the media talk is about his antics and not the sinking ship of his campaign. And like 2016 he's hoping for just enough bad news from Harris, whether forced or unforced, that the media will go wild with to help him out. Which makes Harris avoiding mistakes even more paramount. Avoid the land mines and she'll be in great shape.

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Slanter

But it must drive his supporters crazy, because it's a total non-winner

It doesn't bother them in the slightest. After 8 years they just filter out anything they don't like, and say it was "off the cuff" or "I know what he meant". He spews so much ongoing nonsense that's a pretty easy take.

It's basically identical to the bible. Ignore it's take on slavery and tattoos. Still written (in English) by god though.

[puffnstuff]

The media definitely helps trump by basically never holding him to the same standard as anyone else.
Harris put forward some economic policy, housing I think it was, and media was like ok, but she needs even more detail.
Trump has a presser, says it will be about the economy. Puts forward no policy, rambles about his greivances again, and the media says 'looks like Harris needs to respond to this' and then parse trumps words for him to make him seem sane.
Reminds me off this from 4 years ago, they still do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ess-conference

[CliffFletcher]

I understand the Harris campaign not wanting to change anything up when they’re on a roll. But I hope refusing to do media interviews doesn’t become the new normal for prominent politicians.

I liked the Canadian tradition of MPs, including cabinet ministers and PMs, running the gauntlet of the parliamentary press gallery and facing questions about the issue of the day off the cuff. IMHO, one of Harper’s worst legacies was scrapping that practice, and then refusing to do parliamentary press conferences altogether, in order to insulate elected politicians from the media.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

At this point it's very clear they are going back to the 2016 strategy of trying to dominate every news cycle with outlandish ####, both so Harris gets no airtime and the media talk is about his antics and not the sinking ship of his campaign. And like 2016 he's hoping for just enough bad news from Harris, whether forced or unforced, that the media will go wild with to help him out. Which makes Harris avoiding mistakes even more paramount. Avoid the land mines and she'll be in great shape.

I can't remember where I saw it (could have been here) but I saw a stat recently that 20 million people age 60+ have died since 2016 and 40 million have become voting age on the other end.

I think there's been a gigantic demographic shift from 2016 to 2020 and now in 2024. People have had enough if this guy and the school shooter generation of kids is now becoming the voting majority. There's definitely a contingent of young Republicans that are actually kind of scary because they are more extreme than their conservative parents. They are loud and obnoxious (and mostly armed). But I do think it's a minority among the age group. The majority of this new voting demographic wants all the things they've been harping about: Affordable housing, reproductive rights, healthcare, real wage increases, protections from predatory business, community investment, taxing the top end of the bracket vs the bottom. There was just not a lot of future seen in Biden (despite a lot of successes in the above area) and people were apathetic. The switch to Harris, a potential first woman and woman of color President and her VP with strong "Your buddy's dad you call by his first name and is an absolute legend" energy, and the younger people are getting pumped to vote for something historic that looks to get beyond the pettiness.

I'll say I'm not sold on a few of Kamala's points. What a "ban on price gouging" means is very vague and how that is implemented is hard to imagine. And just on groceries? And the $25k to first time home buyers will get more people into the housing market short term, but probably just increase prices mid-term. These to me are the ideas a capitalist thinks socialist people want, but aren't actually attacking the problems they are band-aiding the symptoms. They then become things that will FSU because they actually create a problem cycle. $25K is enough to get more people IN DEBT for homes. Not to actually be able to afford homes. It's not an increase in their real pay vs the cost of a house. Same with a "gouge ban" in a single industry. All that's going to do is end up with smaller grocers who can't compete with huge companies margins and end up with a larger monopoly in that industry than there already is.

Real wages vs cost of living is really the root of everyone's complaints. People are being gouged for their labour, which is what the target should be. If you're going to go as far as some form of price control, I would rather see corporations over a certain income threshold having to pay their lowest level employee a wage that is tied in some ratio to their highest paid employee. Or to claimed revenue.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

The media definitely helps trump by basically never holding him to the same standard as anyone else.
Harris put forward some economic policy, housing I think it was, and media was like ok, but she needs even more detail.
Trump has a presser, says it will be about the economy. Puts forward no policy, rambles about his greivances again, and the media says 'looks like Harris needs to respond to this' and then parse trumps words for him to make him seem sane.
Reminds me off this from 4 years ago, they still do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ess-conference

As centrists it's important that they strike a balance between criticizing the left and praising the right.

[btimbit]

It's the same as all the criticism about Biden's mental decline. Nonstop talk about that, yet Trump hasn't had a coherent thought in decades

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

The media definitely helps trump by basically never holding him to the same standard as anyone else.
Harris put forward some economic policy, housing I think it was, and media was like ok, but she needs even more detail.
Trump has a presser, says it will be about the economy. Puts forward no policy, rambles about his greivances again, and the media says 'looks like Harris needs to respond to this' and then parse trumps words for him to make him seem sane.
Reminds me off this from 4 years ago, they still do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ess-conference

It’s why there’s so little upside in Harris pumping out a ton of detailed policies and going off script a bunch. I do think after the convention next week she’s gonna need to do some interviews and press conferences and its probably good prep for the debates.

[activeStick]

Saying stuff like this is going to lose him votes from his base and hand the election to Harris.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1824550193863213261

[MoneyGuy]

There are dozens or hundreds like that. Each one costs him votes. Keep digging that hole, Don.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

It’s like Trump is trying to lose this election with his stupid, infuriating comments. Medal of Honor added to the list yesterday.

Because he doesn't care about winning the election on votes. He believes he will win by declaring the election a steal, have electors not certify votes, have states that have Republican officials not recognize Harris as President, and tie it all up in court. His end game is to take power instead of being elected into it.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because he doesn't care about winning the election on votes. He believes he will win by declaring the election a steal, have electors not certify votes, have states that have Republican officials not recognize Harris as President, and tie it all up in court. His end game is to take power instead of being elected into it.

Yes. Marc Elias, save us.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because he doesn't care about winning the election on votes. He believes he will win by declaring the election a steal, have electors not certify votes, have states that have Republican officials not recognize Harris as President, and tie it all up in court. His end game is to take power instead of being elected into it.

The courts will slap them down, but it’s gonna be a huge mess and will probably take months before everything gets sorted out. Not sure if this means they would have to delay the inauguration? Has that ever happened in U.S. history?

[MoneyGuy]

He’s pissing off just about every group except the wealthy and MAGAts. Who will vote for him?

Women?
Veterans?
Union members?
Minorities?
LGBTQ?
Young voters?
The poor?
Working class?
Moderates?
RINOs?
College educated?
Anyone with compassion?

The blue wave will take him out then Marc Elias’s group will take it from there.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Because he doesn't care about winning the election on votes. He believes he will win by declaring the election a steal, have electors not certify votes, have states that have Republican officials not recognize Harris as President, and tie it all up in court. His end game is to take power instead of being elected into it.

In the absolute worst case scenario the buck stops with military power. I don’t think he has the military in his pocket

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

He’s pissing off just about every group except the wealthy and MAGAts. Who will vote for him?

Women?
Veterans?
Union members?
Minorities?
LGBTQ?
Young voters?
The poor?
Working class?
Moderates?
RINOs?
College educated?
Anyone with compassion?

The blue wave will take him out then Marc Elias’s group will take it from there.

Yo, you been asleep the last eight years?