Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[Fuzz]

BC has tax credits and higher gas taxes, so it makes more sense there.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Was in Vancouver for a quick work trip on Tuesday - its crazy to see how many EVs are driving around.

You basically can't drive a block with seeing a tesla.

But, just in a short amount of driving, I saw:

Chevy Bolt (and possibly EV Blazer/equinox?)
Hummer EV
Hyundai (Kona, Ioniq 5 & 6)
Kia (EV6 & EV9)
Vinfast
Rivian
Toyota BZ4x
Mercedes EQe(I think)
Nissan Leaf
VW ID.4
Ford (MAch E & Lightning)
Likely some Volvo/ BMW / Audi (harder to spot)
Probably Polestar
possibly Fiskar?

So many.

I was in LA a month ago, and was blown away by the amount of electric vehicles I saw there - and of all types. Also, 80% of our Uber's were electric.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

BC has tax credits and higher gas taxes, so it makes more sense there.

Climate is a little more conducive to EV's as well, it doesn't get as cold in winter. Driving distances are generally less in the lower mainland as well, range may not be as much as an issue.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Climate is a little more conducive to EV's as well, it doesn't get as cold in winter. Driving distances are generally less in the lower mainland as well, range may not be as much as an issue.

And for years, EVs have run on smug, which their is no shortage of out there.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I was in LA a month ago, and was blown away by the amount of electric vehicles I saw there - and of all types. Also, 80% of our Uber's were electric.

I have noticed the same thing in Seattle.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

BC has tax credits and higher gas taxes, so it makes more sense there.

Yup.

For my F150 lightning:

For a gas version, at 12L/100km and $1.79/L it's $21.48 to drive 100km

My real world numbers, at 31kWh/100km and $0.10/kWh it's $3.10 to drive 100km

No tax credit, but up to $4k off a new EV (if you make less than 80k/yr) on top of the $5k federal rebate makes it almost a no brainer

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

No tax credit, but up to $4k off a new EV (if you make less than 80k/yr) on top of the $5k federal rebate makes it almost a no brainer

If you are making less than 80k a year nowadays you should not be thinking of buying a new car.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

If you are making less than 80k a year nowadays you should not be thinking of buying a new car.

Agreed. The complaints on EVs here were "only the rich can afford them, why are we subsidizing them? We need subsidies for those making less than 80k!"

I'm thinking "no, they buy used cars which will soon be available". And lo and behold, there's a thriving used EV market

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Agreed. The complaints on EVs here were "only the rich can afford them, why are we subsidizing them? We need subsidies for those making less than 80k!"

I'm thinking "no, they buy used cars which will soon be available". And lo and behold, there's a thriving used EV market

They would be better off subsidizing the financing for people in the sub 80k range to buy used ones. With lower income levels saving is difficult because basic living eats up more of your income. Someone making 100k can live like a pauper and save. The person making 75 just doesn't have the money to save. But if there were advantageous finance rates to buy an EV over another type used, I think that could entice more people to look that way. Now they're looking to save on the energy to use it, plus possibly a lower payment.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They would be better off subsidizing the financing for people in the sub 80k range to buy used ones. With lower income levels saving is difficult because basic living eats up more of your income. Someone making 100k can live like a pauper and save. The person making 75 just doesn't have the money to save. But if there were advantageous finance rates to buy an EV over another type used, I think that could entice more people to look that way. Now they're looking to save on the energy to use it, plus possibly a lower payment.

Even that misses the boat though. The point of subsidizing is to increase electric vehicle uptake because that will increase infrastructure, normalize a new technology, and lower prices naturally due to scale. Why do we care which demographic buys them? Stimulating used EV sales does little to advance any of this

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Even that misses the boat though. The point of subsidizing is to increase electric vehicle uptake because that will increase infrastructure, normalize a new technology, and lower prices naturally due to scale. Why do we care which demographic buys them? Stimulating used EV sales does little to advance any of this

On its own it won't do much. But what does giving people a discount on something they can't afford accomplish?

Right now the depreciation on EV's is something that is of concern. Than factor in the original price which is out of reach for like me and maybe 5 other people on Calgarypuck but outside of that 75% of the real world in this country can afford. So a better market for used ones to alleviate some of the depreciation might result in you rich guys cycling through them a bit quicker do lowlifes like me have more used ones. If it keeps them on the road and gets the used market using them more in theory that should boost infrastructure and the like.

That said some type of subsidized battery replacement insurance program that helps take away the my car is worthless and too expensive to fix might be more effective. I don't know...if I was a good thinker, I probably wouldn't be a bottom of the barrel lowlife!

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

On its own it won't do much. But what does giving people a discount on something they can't afford accomplish?

It floods the market with used inventory, which drops used prices.

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Right now the depreciation on EV's is something that is of concern.

Yup, so just make the incentives big enough that people won't care. Like property in a flood zone (for the 2 years people remember the flood for after).

I think it's way more efficient to administer subsidies on the new stuff, and vehicles truly do "trickle down" and all the rich guys turn them over like underwear.

[Calgary]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Yup.

For my F150 lightning:

For a gas version, at 12L/100km and $1.79/L it's $21.48 to drive 100km

My real world numbers, at 31kWh/100km and $0.10/kWh it's $3.10 to drive 100km

No tax credit, but up to $4k off a new EV (if you make less than 80k/yr) on top of the $5k federal rebate makes it almost a no brainer

Pretty eyeopening figures. Thanks for sharing.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

On its own it won't do much. But what does giving people a discount on something they can't afford accomplish?



Right now the depreciation on EV's is something that is of concern. Than factor in the original price which is out of reach for like me and maybe 5 other people on Calgarypuck but outside of that 75% of the real world in this country can afford. So a better market for used ones to alleviate some of the depreciation might result in you rich guys cycling through them a bit quicker do lowlifes like me have more used ones. If it keeps them on the road and gets the used market using them more in theory that should boost infrastructure and the like.



That said some type of subsidized battery replacement insurance program that helps take away the my car is worthless and too expensive to fix might be more effective. I don't know...if I was a good thinker, I probably wouldn't be a bottom of the barrel lowlife!

I'm not suggesting incentivizing expensive purchases for the upper middle class is fair, just saying that's the most direct way to increase uptake. But before we go too far down that argument, it's worth noting that the average price of a new EV is only 10% higher than that of a combustion vehicle. It's the wealthy that buy all new vehicles, not just EVs.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Calgary

Pretty eyeopening figures. Thanks for sharing.

to add to that math:

Difference of $18.38 per 100 km of driving.

If someone averages driving 500km a week, that's a savings of $92 a week, or $4800 a year. plus the cost of a couple oil changes saved as well.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

to add to that math:

Difference of $18.38 per 100 km of driving.

If someone averages driving 500km a week, that's a savings of $92 a week, or $4800 a year. plus the cost of a couple oil changes saved as well.

Why are people so reluctant to purchase EV's if the payout is this quick? I've always wondered this.

[Fuzz]

Do many people drive one vehicle 25,000 km a year? The average is ~15,000km. And those savings are for a pickup truck, a smaller efficient gas car will see less savings.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Why are people so reluctant to purchase EV's if the payout is this quick? I've always wondered this.

Lifestyle. One barrier right off the bat is not having anywhere convenient to plug in.

If you live in a house or in a multi-family dwelling with outdoor parking that has block heater plug-ins, then at the very least you have (slow) level 1 charging. But if you rely on zoned street parking, or are in a multi-story dwelling with an underground parking garage, it's pretty likely that you don't have access to charging infrastructure at home.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

to add to that math:

Difference of $18.38 per 100 km of driving.

If someone averages driving 500km a week, that's a savings of $92 a week, or $4800 a year. plus the cost of a couple oil changes saved as well.

You'll burn through the oil change savings on a bigger tire budget vs an ICE vehicle and then some.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Why are people so reluctant to purchase EV's if the payout is this quick? I've always wondered this.

What if i have to drive to Saskatoon last minute, and our other ICE vehicle is in the shop?!?!?!