MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I do particularly enjoy how we're cutting the one station that is closest to walk to for many residents of the Beltline, ie the densest residential neighborhood in Calgary.

Despite the nearby population and jobs, Centre Street station wasn't expected to have that much ridership. Given that the entire line is $7+B unfunded, I wouldn't expect it to ever be built.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Why would Ogden residences and business be opposed to the LRT boarding the CPKC HQ?

Have you seen the kind of crime that comes with Train stations these days?

Originally Posted by Wormius

Probably just the comment section of <insert rage bait social media platform here>

Plus Locke is secretly Rick Bell, but refuses to admit even knowing who that is.

First of all, I couldn't pick Rick Bell out of a Police line-up and secondly...even a cursory Google search would tell you who I am.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What about the rest of the stuff I listed?

All costs that are even more insignificant, and most have strong benefits to safety, accessibility, etc, and are necessary.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

I don't really buy that this is what the UCP wants. They are desperate for Calgary votes, this won't help them. The only thing is this will help the new conservative muni party get elected.
I think the construction companies are taking us to the cleaners frankly. I would absolutely love to see the costs for each station + per mileage of track. I just can't see why a half-arsed version is still going to cost so much. I wonder if were getting an inflated cost just because they have to deal with crap already going on. A big GFU built in.

What would make you think anything the UCP has done so far entices Calgary voters? Their entire MO is to attack urban centres and disenfranchise voters. They have no desire to govern competently. Every single thing they do is designed to hurt municipalities. They feed on angry uneducated complacent voters. Their only “win” was the arena and it involved funding corporate welfare for a billionaire.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

All costs that are even more insignificant, and most have strong benefits to safety, accessibility, etc, and are necessary.

Going to have to disagree with you there. Nothing I listed impacts safety nor accessibility, except for the fence between the lines which is just overbuilt safety.

[BlackArcher101]

If only they had went with the early busway in the ROW, we'd probably be using it by now, and most of the infrastructure would have been completed at lower costs. All we would have to do is add track and electrification.

I can't remember the reason that was nullified, but I feel it was to "do it right the first time", and well, we didn't do it right and now we've got less.

Hell, do the green line as LRT downtown and to the stadium so the hard underground costs get done at least. Then at Inglewood or something transition to a busway and get it down to Mahogany or Seton.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

If only they had went with the early busway in the ROW, we'd probably be using it by now, and most of the infrastructure would have been completed at lower costs. All we would have to do is add track and electrification.

I can't remember the reason that was nullified, but I feel it was to "do it right the first time", and well, we didn't do it right and now we've got less.

They didn't want to do an intermediate BRT step because:

a) They claimed BRT capacity would be insufficient to meet the medium term needs of the Centre Street N transit corridor. Which is pretty funny now that the NC LRT has been more or less officially canceled and that corridor is only getting minor BRT improvements.

b) They only needed $4.6B to build most, maybe even all of the 40 km Green Line so no need to waste money on a busway when you can have rail.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by accord1999

They didn't want to do an intermediate BRT step because:

a) They claimed BRT capacity would be insufficient to meet the medium term needs of the Centre Street N transit corridor. Which is pretty funny now that the NC LRT has been more or less officially canceled and that corridor is only getting minor BRT improvements.

b) They only needed $4.6B to build most, maybe even all of the 40 km Green Line so no need to waste money on a busway when you can have rail.

A lot of big decisions have been based on faulty premises. But few if any of those decisions seem to have been reconsidered once those faults became apparent.

[fotze2]

When they had that groupl who was against this a while back, of course everyone complaining its just another group of Rick Bell supporters complaining about spendshi.

It wasn't a Craig Chandler who eats almost as much as he is full of crap. But evil crap. Or the old Preston Manning crew.

It was Jim Gray and Barry Lester. Not your usual suspects. Jim Gray made his money in the oilpatch, he has to be stupid and evil right, because all you do is just drill and make money and rape the land right?

No, he is one of the good ones in a sea of not so good.

Then you get to Barry Lester. Least charismatic human on earth, Ran Stantec forever. Structural Engineer, brilliant, hundred of projects. He knows his stuff, political ambitions of a inanimate carbon rod. He was saying there is something wrong with this.

But no, everyone jumps to their tribe, and ignore stuff.

Righties saying its all about 15 minute cities, lefties saying its gas guzzlers hating public transportation.

They (and lots in the industry) knew this was politicians meddling into experts opinions. Trust the science, was not done by those saying it the loudest.

Loudest morons are the partisan people and yet they push most policy because the rest of us don't want to be infected with the stupidity and surety involved so they say whatevs.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by fotze2

When they had that groupl who was against this a while back, of course everyone complaining its just another group of Rick Bell supporters complaining about spendshi.

It wasn't a Craig Chandler who eats almost as much as he is full of crap. But evil crap. Or the old Preston Manning crew.

It was Jim Gray and Barry Lester. Not your usual suspects. Jim Gray made his money in the oilpatch, he has to be stupid and evil right, because all you do is just drill and make money and rape the land right?

No, he is one of the good ones in a sea of not so good.

Then you get to Barry Lester. Least charismatic human on earth, Ran Stantec forever. Structural Engineer, brilliant, hundred of projects. He knows his stuff, political ambitions of a inanimate carbon rod. He was saying there is something wrong with this.

But no, everyone jumps to their tribe, and ignore stuff.

Righties saying its all about 15 minute cities, lefties saying its gas guzzlers hating public transportation.

They (and lots in the industry) knew this was politicians meddling into experts opinions. Trust the science, was not done by those saying it the loudest.

Loudest morons are the partisan people and yet they push most policy because the rest of us don't want to be infected with the stupidity and surety involved so they say whatevs.

A train from Downtown to Seton and nothing for the north. All above grade downtown. Let's not even talk about a line to the north for at least 5-10 years. Neat idea that Jim Gray fellow had.

And by the way, this noted group of concerned citizens and non-partisans 'following the science' includes Brett Wilson and Steve Allan of the famous Public Inquiry into Anti-Alberta energy campaigns.

Also this very serious group spelled Seton wrong in the first paragraph of their submission to council and regularly throughout the document
https://greenlineinfo.ca/wp-content/...Feb05_2020.pdf

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by fotze2

When they had that groupl who was against this a while back, of course everyone complaining its just another group of Rick Bell supporters complaining about spendshi.

It wasn't a Craig Chandler who eats almost as much as he is full of crap. But evil crap. Or the old Preston Manning crew.

It was Jim Gray and Barry Lester. Not your usual suspects. Jim Gray made his money in the oilpatch, he has to be stupid and evil right, because all you do is just drill and make money and rape the land right?

No, he is one of the good ones in a sea of not so good.

Then you get to Barry Lester. Least charismatic human on earth, Ran Stantec forever. Structural Engineer, brilliant, hundred of projects. He knows his stuff, political ambitions of a inanimate carbon rod. He was saying there is something wrong with this.

But no, everyone jumps to their tribe, and ignore stuff.

Righties saying its all about 15 minute cities, lefties saying its gas guzzlers hating public transportation.

They (and lots in the industry) knew this was politicians meddling into experts opinions. Trust the science, was not done by those saying it the loudest.

Loudest morons are the partisan people and yet they push most policy because the rest of us don't want to be infected with the stupidity and surety involved so they say whatevs.

https://everydaytourist.ca/city-plan...t-for-downtown


I don't really remember seeing this plan, but it seems like a pretty good compromise. The biggest issue being the height needed above the CP tracks.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Platforms are level with the train cars regardless of the type. Green line is using low floor trains, so the "platforms" don't need to be as high as the ones on the other lines. Accessibility isn't handled by the train in any scenario.

That's not true. Tons of LRVs in the world run on lines where some of the stops have no platform at all, especially in big pedestrian plazas. LRVs equipped with ramps are very common:

Spoiler!

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Torture

A train from Downtown to Seton and nothing for the north. All above grade downtown. Let's not even talk about a line to the north for at least 5-10 years. Neat idea that Jim Gray fellow had.

But nothing for the north is where we are now several years later and several billion dollars more expensive. I think it was obvious to many that the stub across the river would be the first thing to be cut if costs continued to increase as the Green Line planners also have never cared about the north.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

That's not true. Tons of LRVs in the world run on lines where some of the stops have no platform at all, especially in big pedestrian plazas. LRVs equipped with ramps are very common:

Spoiler!

I'm talking about what has been built here and will continue to be built.

[puffnstuff]

This whole mess is dumb.

[curves2000]

We need expert accounting and expert accountability for this project and more. How can the decision makers be so wrong? Where did the complete collapse in this project actually occur? As I said before and in previous posts, plenty of people on council need to be held to serious account. The video above of Nenshi glossing over a little inflation is all cute and all, but running the numbers should be jaw dropping. Everybody is to blame here.

In 2015 this was suppose to be $5.5 billion for 40 km's north-south. Things got more expensive, change in federal government, provincial government, Covid, inflation, interest rates etc. In 2020/21 this project was approved for approx 50% design and build with a ton of room for contingency planning. Everybody was beyond confident that there was more than enough wiggle room.

Fast forward to yesterday, when this gong show of a disaster was presented and now we are being told that maybe 1/3 of this project is going to be built to the tune of $6.2 billion? This has now become a $20-30 billion project when it's all said and done, for 40 km's of rail? That is $500-750 million per km. Process that figure.

Does anyone with a functioning, rational brain not think we are being taken advantage of in this regard and that financial fraud us not happening in front of us?

Before some people get pissy about things, let's just realize what is going to be happening right next door to this thing in the new arena. Does anyone think that Murray Edwards from the Flames ownership group just going to allow a 2-3 X increase in his costs to build the thing? Do you order a $50k car and then be told that it's going to be $200-250 k later? Has anyone purchased an averaged price single family home for $700k and then when it comes to completion being given a nearly $3 million tab?

A post for another thread but the same financial thievery has happened with the Transmountain Pipeline in AB/BC. Was suppose to be $4.5 billion but will probably reach $40, a 10X increase.

Actually what is going on here?

[powderjunkie]

The failure was day 1 announcement. That price was never ever ever realistic. Overpromise, under deliver

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I'm talking about what has been built here and will continue to be built.

I thought you were talking about Europe. I'm confused.

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Why do they even need stations when they're at grade? In most of Europe you get off low floor trains onto a sidewalk with a sign post. It's equivalent to a bus stop.

The LRVs that were specced for the green line have 34cm floors. Curbs are ~15cm. So while they look close to a sidewalk and are quite cheap to build vs. high floor platforms, they are still platforms. Unless you have LRVs with accessibility ramps, I'm saying jumping off a train onto a sidewalk doesn't work.

I think I'm catching on that you are saying the lower floor platforms are effectively a sidewalk and not a "station". I got thrown off because in Europe, they actually have LRVs with absolutely nothing for a station, you just jump off in the middle of a plaza, and to me that is what "no station" implied.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I thought you were talking about Europe. I'm confused.



The LRVs that were specced for the green line have 34cm floors. Curbs are ~15cm. So while they look close to a sidewalk and are quite cheap to build vs. high floor platforms, they are still platforms. Unless you have LRVs with accessibility ramps, I'm saying jumping off a train onto a sidewalk doesn't work.

I think I'm catching on that you are saying the lower floor platforms are effectively a sidewalk and not a "station". I got thrown off because in Europe, they actually have LRVs with absolutely nothing for a station, you just jump off in the middle of a plaza, and to me that is what "no station" implied.

“No station” doesn’t meet accessibility requirements.

100% non starter.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

“No station” doesn’t meet accessibility requirements.

100% non starter.

I didn't think this was true if the LRV has accessibility ramps (as I posted images of earlier).