MF YYC Politics - there, I mega did it

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Regorium

My question is how is a reduction of this magnitude STILL costing 5.5B? 1B a station? How? What?

Why do they even need stations when they're at grade? In most of Europe you get off low floor trains onto a sidewalk with a sign post. It's equivalent to a bus stop.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Regorium

My question is how is a reduction of this magnitude STILL costing 5.5B? 1B a station? How? What?

It's gotta be all the underground downtown stuff. Tough for a layperson to know if that is a reasonable cost or not.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Barnes

I am excited! This is going to be great for people who live downtown, not near centre street and play slow pitch in Lynnwood on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I do particularly enjoy how we're cutting the one station that is closest to walk to for many residents of the Beltline, ie the densest residential neighborhood in Calgary.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Why do they even need stations when they're at grade? In most of Europe you get off low floor trains onto a sidewalk with a sign post. It's equivalent to a bus stop.

Accessibility standards here?

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Accessibility standards here?

I think this can be achieved with ramp mechanisms on the trains, or a single ramp at the station for one of the doors, but it's more limiting and results in slower loading/unloading for people requiring the accessibility measures.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Accessibility standards here?

What's inaccessible about a basic sidewalk? Here's a station we used in Barcelona.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Don't even bother with it if this is all we get. What a sham.

This is pretty much exactly what the UCP wants the public sentiment about the Green Line project to be in the first place.

Delay, delay, force a reduction of scope due to ever increasing cost brought on by such delays, delay some more, force yet another a reduction of scope due to cost, and watch public opinion turn against the project.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I think this can be achieved with ramp mechanisms on the trains, or a single ramp at the station for one of the doors, but it's more limiting and results in slower loading/unloading for people requiring the accessibility measures.

Platforms are level with the train cars regardless of the type. Green line is using low floor trains, so the "platforms" don't need to be as high as the ones on the other lines. Accessibility isn't handled by the train in any scenario.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What's inaccessible about a basic sidewalk? Here's a station we used in Barcelona.

It's not architectural purdy, but that's basically what ever station for a low-floor LRT should look like. A slightly fancier sidewalk + basic shelter (maybe add heaters if you want to get crazy).

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

This is pretty much exactly what the UCP wants the public sentiment about the Green Line project to be in the first place.

Delay, delay, force a reduction of scope due to ever increasing cost brought on by such delays, delay some more, force yet another a reduction of scope due to cost, and watch public opinion turn against the project.

That very well may be true...but it's hard to argue that it's not a sh*t project as it stands.

[topfiverecords]

So are they at least leaving opportunity for the underground Centre St station to be added in later? Like 2085.

They really should fight for the extra funding to put 4th underground. You can't go back from that. Forever left with the cheaper option on everything but overpasses in this city.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What's inaccessible about a basic sidewalk? Here's a station we used in Barcelona.

I was envisioning something more like this which I don't think would meet any sort of accessibility requires here. You can see that from the sidewalk there is a step up into the train. Even the middle section of the train which is more accessible still have a smaller step up and isn't at grade with the sidewalk. I don't know if those middle sections have a ramp to aid in accessibility.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1075...5410&entry=ttu

[You Need a Thneed]

The suburban stations aren't much more than those.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The suburban stations aren't much more than those.

Technically, they aren't any more.

Here's what was proposed for Douglas Glen. It's a lot above the bare minimum for the areas the line was to be running to.

The platforms don't need to start that deep. They don't need shelters and canopies. They don't need space to walk behind the shelter. They don't need 8 sets of signage specifying the direction. Do they really need that central barrier between trains? Do they need that big fancy useless canopy.

They need a sidewalk platform at the level of the train floor. They need a sign on each side with the name of the station and the direction. They need lights, ticket machines, security cams, and those help buttons.





Build more bare bones stations to more locations first before adding the extras when there isn't funding to do it all.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

This is pretty much exactly what the UCP wants the public sentiment about the Green Line project to be in the first place.

Delay, delay, force a reduction of scope due to ever increasing cost brought on by such delays, delay some more, force yet another a reduction of scope due to cost, and watch public opinion turn against the project.

I don't really buy that this is what the UCP wants. They are desperate for Calgary votes, this won't help them. The only thing is this will help the new conservative muni party get elected.
I think the construction companies are taking us to the cleaners frankly. I would absolutely love to see the costs for each station + per mileage of track. I just can't see why a half-arsed version is still going to cost so much. I wonder if were getting an inflated cost just because they have to deal with crap already going on. A big GFU built in.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Technically, they aren't any more.

Here's what was proposed for Douglas Glen. It's a lot above the bare minimum for the areas the line was to be running to.

The platforms don't need to start that deep. They don't need shelters and canopies. They don't need space to walk behind the shelter. They don't need 8 sets of signage specifying the direction. Do they really need that central barrier between trains? Do they need that big fancy useless canopy.

They need a sidewalk platform at the level of the train floor. They need a sign on each side with the name of the station and the direction. They need lights, ticket machines, security cams, and those help buttons.





Build more bare bones stations to more locations first before adding the extras when there isn't funding to do it all.

The shelters on those stations are such a tiny part of the overall cost. Removing all of the shelters for the whole length doesn't even get you halfway to one additional station.

[Muta]

While I like low-floor stations, low floor LRT cars would be needed, which means purchasing a new fleet of train cars (and this can be expensive). Calgary's fleet is currently all high floor.

That said, Edmonton's new Valley Line LRT system (the west leg of which is currently under construction) is a low-floor line, so it's not without precent in Alberta. More information here:

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...to-lewis-farms

The new Metro Line NW LRT Extension in Edmonton is high-floor, so they utilize both systems. Here's a description from the CoE's Metro Line page:

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/nw-lrt

Style of LRT
The Metro Line extension will combine both an urban and suburban style. Utilizing a high-floor train, certain portions of the alignment will be incorporated into communities while other segments will run through suburban areas.

The high-floor train operates similar to the low-floor trains with the main difference being the location of equipment is below the floor, resulting in higher station platforms. Landscaping and architectural features will be incorporated into the design to minimize intrusion and maximize the openness of space to create a safe environment.

The Metro Line extension will be mainly at street level, although going above or below ground will be required to cross busier intersections and the CN Walker Rail Yard. This preliminary design was approved by City Council in January 2019.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Muta

While I like low-floor stations, low floor LRT cars would be needed, which means purchasing a new fleet of train cars (and this can be expensive). Calgary's fleet is currently all high floor.

Green line is low floor, think they already signed contracts for the LRV's for it (years ago). Heck, I think they touted the cost savings in regards to station builds by going to low floor.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

The shelters on those stations are such a tiny part of the overall cost. Removing all of the shelters for the whole length doesn't even get you halfway to one additional station.

What about the rest of the stuff I listed?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Green line is low floor, think they already signed contracts for the LRV's for it (years ago). Heck, I think they touted the cost savings in regards to station builds by going to low floor.

Yep - sorry, was just a comment in relation to Calgary's existing fleet, which on the Red and Blue lines are all high-floor.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

What about the rest of the stuff I listed?

The platforms don't need to start that deep. They don't need shelters and canopies. They don't need space to walk behind the shelter. They don't need 8 sets of signage specifying the direction. Do they really need that central barrier between trains? Do they need that big fancy useless canopy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the signs don't cost much either. These stations are not all that fancy or overpriced. Build 'em as basic as you want but you're not shaving off anything meaningful. And frankly having a basic shelter rather than just a sidewalk makes sense in Alberta - the weather is a little bit more extreme in Calgary than in Barcelona.