Israel declares war on Hamas

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

"Not a bloodlust really. I want less blood long term. The only way forward is to make people understand, that housing a terrorist organization in your country, let alone elect them in your government, will bring serious consequences to you, not only to them."

No other way to describe this post other than a sick, warped, twisted attempt to justify mass murder and genocide.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Those are obvious. A rocket hit a soccer field in Druze village in Golan Heights, killing 13 children. A day later USA said that the rocket was launched by Hezbollah.

That's the worst culprit for USA, there's no point for them to lie like that. If USA said, that it was some minor militia and Israel said, no it was Hezbollah, you could have an argument...

So the same "obvious" facts as Iraq and wmds?

I asked for facts. Not your conjecture.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You understand the current population of Gaza hasn't had an election since 2006, and in that election:





They don't have an option to get rid of them, yet you still condemn them all? And even if they were a fully educated electorate that could understand what you are saying, the reality of their situation is they have been under the thumb of Israel for so long, subject to having their land controlled, unable to establish statehood, and yes, educated in hatred against their oppressors that I can see why they've had enough, an shrugged their shoulders at the violence Hammas inflicts on Israel, because they see Israel doing far far worse to them.


I mean, good for you for coming up with a logical solution to absolving yourself of guilt, I guess. But it's not a very complete picture of the reality the Palestinians have lived with, and when you examine it from the point of view of a child who has no choice, has never had a say, and is still bound by your "logic" to die, or have their family wiped out, well, I have to question if you including having a shred of humanity in your thinking.

I understand pretty well, because I actually lived in Russia during all thise fake elections. The idea that population is powerless, and thus not guilty, is a compelling one, but not exactly truth. Putin is not some superhuman who can hypnotize people and make them do what he wants. People in Russia were passive because they thought, that Putin will take all the responsibility. If he starts the war, it's him whi will be responsible for that. That war forced me to immigrate in my early 40s, with two kids being 6 and 3. It's not easy. I really thought about it long and hard and I witnessed what was happening in Russia first hand. My opinion about making population - rather than leadership - responsible to prevent wars comes from my personal experience and doesn't have anything to do with Gaza - before the October 7th that is.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

So the same "obvious" facts as Iraq and wmds?

I asked for facts. Not your conjecture.

USA had every reason to lie about Iraq. They wanted that war. Now they don't want this war in Lebanon.

What I said are facts. Unless you claim that there was no rocket blast in the soccer field at all. Or that USA didn't say that it is Hezbollah.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

No other way to describe this post other than a sick, warped, twisted attempt to justify mass murder and genocide.

It is not, because those views of mine were shaped before I even came to Israel.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

What I said are facts. Unless you claim that there was no rocket blast in the soccer field at all. Or that USA didn't say that it is Hezbollah.

LOL. No one is denying there was a a rocket blast.

The word of the US is not fact.

It is also a fact that Hezbollah say they didn't do it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It is not, because those views of mine were shaped before I even came to Israel.

So you're saying too that anyone trying to kill Israeli civilians is justified?
Given that they view you as a terrorist organization?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

LOL. No one is denying there was a a rocket blast.

The word of the US is not fact.

It is also a fact that Hezbollah say they didn't do it.

The fact is that USA blames Hezbollah for that. It is true, that Hezbollah denies it. Now, based on those facts AND LOGIC, it's not hard to arrive at conclusion that it was indeed Hezbollah. I showed above the whole train of thought. It is also clear that Hezbollah didn't intend to kill Arabian children, this is why they deny.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

So you're saying too that anyone trying to kill Israeli civilians is justified?
Given that they view you as a terrorist organization?

Hamas is designated terrorist organization, recognized as such by many countries. Israel is not.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

That's correct.

But you've been asked to explain to us as to why they're not.
A is not really a strong argument.
Here. Try again.

Snuffleupagus won't respond to that video and will just disappear for while so they don't have to.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Snuffleupagus won't respond to that video and will just disappear for while so they don't have to.

He’ll respond if he finds something fitting on a white nationalist YouTube channel he can share in response.

[Bagor]

Ok. What we have established here is what the US says is established fact.

Despite logic suggesting to treat their and Israeli claims with caution given both their history of lying.

Because despite their claim about the multiple babies being beheaded having never been shown to be true it has never been proven that it's a not true either.

Logic.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Hamas is designated terrorist organization, recognized as such by many countries. Israel is not.

Leaders of both organizations have been charged by the ICC for war crimes.
Israel is on trial for genocide.

Just another couple of facts.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

I understand pretty well, because I actually lived in Russia during all thise fake elections. The idea that population is powerless, and thus not guilty, is a compelling one, but not exactly truth. Putin is not some superhuman who can hypnotize people and make them do what he wants. People in Russia were passive because they thought, that Putin will take all the responsibility. If he starts the war, it's him whi will be responsible for that. That war forced me to immigrate in my early 40s, with two kids being 6 and 3. It's not easy. I really thought about it long and hard and I witnessed what was happening in Russia first hand. My opinion about making population - rather than leadership - responsible to prevent wars comes from my personal experience and doesn't have anything to do with Gaza - before the October 7th that is.

Gaza is not Russia though. Russia doesn't have another country controlling it's existence. Gazan's can't escape as you did.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Ok. What we have established here is what the US says is established fact.

Despite logic suggesting to treat their and Israeli claims with caution given both their history of lying.

Because despite their claim about the multiple babies being beheaded having never been shown to be true it has never been proven that it's a not true either.

Logic.

You put words in my mouth and then spectacularly proved them wrong, perhaps in some exercise of self-amusement

The fact, again, is that USA made a statement that this was Hezbollah's rocket. This, alone, does not mean that it was indeed Hezbollah's rocket. One needs to consider things such as whether USA have any incentives to lie in this particular case, and whether Hezbollah has any incentives to lie in this particular case. Then it becomes clear who lies.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Ok. What we have established here is what the US says is established fact.

Despite logic suggesting to treat their and Israeli claims with caution given both their history of lying.

Because despite their claim about the multiple babies being beheaded having never been shown to be true it has never been proven that it's a not true either.

Logic.

The bolded is true the majority of the time for a large segment of the western population as the US is the greatest at producing propaganda by far and it's not even close. Ironically, that segment of the western population are quick to tell everyone about other countries' propaganda and how nothing those people/see or read should be trusted, while lapping up the media they consume in the west as fact.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Gaza is not Russia though. Russia doesn't have another country controlling it's existence. Gazan's can't escape as you did.

That should have motivated Gazans even more, rather than less than Russians, to do something about Hamas.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Pointman

That should have motivated Gazans even more, rather than less than Russians, to do something about Hamas.

What should Gazans do about Hamas, why, and how?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

One needs to consider things such as whether USA have any incentives to lie in this particular case, and whether Hezbollah has any incentives to lie in this particular case. Then it becomes clear who lies.

Conjecture.

Let me play. My conjecture is Israel is itching to start firing into Syria and Lebanon and the US is going along with anything to get at Iran. Then it becomes clear who lies.

So. Stop presenting your conjecture as facts when all I am saying we have the claims of two terrorist organizations.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Pointman

That should have motivated Gazans even more, rather than less than Russians, to do something about Hamas.

Ok, you are 17 years old, live off rations in a tent and struggle daily to get by. You take care of your younger siblings because your parents were killed in the Israeli airstrikes on Gaza in 2014. You have no access to outside resources. No weapons to violently overthrow a terrorist government who controls almost everything in Gaza. You are now expected to help liberate your territory. What do you do from a refugee camp?