Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Disagree. The federal government could amend the Criminal Code to make performing an abortion (ever or in certain circumstances) a criminal offence.

They could, I guess. And the NDP could nationalize Canada’s banks and insurance companies if they formed the federal government (as has been proposed in recent party conventions). But it’s probably not worth losing sleep over.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Funny that the guys freaking out over “fear mongering” by posters on a message board let fear mongering by the leader of the opposition slide without a single comment.

Hmmm, nothing weird about that. Must be just some other normal guys.

The Wokeness Monster is real tho bro, we should all fear its wrath.

Do your own research!

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, good takedown. Really top notch stuff. Except you didn't address the fascist tendencies at all, and in a failed dunk attempt posted another article showing that workers are buying the fascist feces Pierre is selling them. That's why it is working. Heaving forbid people recognize what is going on with Pierre, and maybe talk about it? It wouldn't be the first time a Conservative leader spouted bull#### to get elected, and then does the opposite once in power, or the first time voters vote against their own best interested because all they read was a slogan.


So maybe try it again, Firbot. Do you have any rational analysis to counter the article I posted discussing Pierre's fascist tendencies, and how they are similar to previous fascists in history? Or do you just want to make another flacid dunk attempt?

You posted a far left article as a rebuttal to a completely factual statement.

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How about maybe not a fascist alternative. Please?

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

There are not any fascist parties running with a possible chance of winning.

So you clearly incist despite reality that the CPC and Poilievre are fascists because you say so, while raging that "fascist feces Pierre" is winning over voters instead of looking at why they are leaving a party you support. Who's drunk here?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Firebot

CPC is the benefactor of Liberals and NDP failing to listen to Canadians. If traditional NDP supporters are scared of the CPC stealing part of their base, they need to look from within and fix the party instead of yelling "tHEy aRe FASCists" over and over.

It’s worth asking why the NDP aren’t seeing any benefit from the collapse of the Liberals. Why voters unhappy with the status quo are almost all turning to the CPC instead.

But no doubt denouncing the leader of the party currently leading Canada in the polls as fascist is something moderate, uncommitted Canadians will find persuasive, and not desperate and unhinged.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

You posted a far left article as a rebuttal to a completely factual statement.

So you clearly incist despite reality that the CPC and Poilievre are fascists because you say so, while raging that "fascist feces Pierre" is winning over voters instead of looking at why they are leaving a party you support. Who's drunk here?

You still haven't addressed the very reasonable issues brought up in the "far left article", so I have to assume they must be correct, because you can't counter the facts. Does Pierre communicate in fascist ways? Yes, yes he does.



I also don't support a party, but nice try. The party I did support once upon a time was taken over by these losers. Maybe that's why I'm so hard on them?

[Fuzz]

“Today, 84 years to the day since the Nazi-Soviet pact was signed, we remember the tens of millions of victims of Communism and Nazism in Europe. Together with all those who love freedom, we stand against the repulsive ideas that bred such hatred, and we recommit to defending justice and liberty wherever it is under attack. May we forever remain on guard against fascism, communism and all other forms of socialism.”

https://www.conservative.ca/statemen...ck-ribbon-day/


ALL forms of socialism? He's basically grouped Canadian society with facism and communism, but I'm the one losing perspective?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Looch City

The Wokeness Monster is real tho bro, we should all fear its wrath.

Do your own research!

PP: The Liberals and NDP are extremist radical ideological wackos that detest working class families!

SOME POSTERS: *crickets*

RANDOM GUY: PP uses fascist rhetoric

SAME POSTERS: FeAr mOnGerInGg!!!! ABOETION ISNT REAL! THEY DID THIS TO HARRPERRRRR!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.conservative.ca/statemen...ck-ribbon-day/


ALL forms of socialism? He's basically grouped Canadian society with facism and communism, but I'm the one losing perspective?

It’s OK when he does it, though.

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL, good takedown. Really top notch stuff. Except you didn't address the fascist tendencies at all, and in a failed dunk attempt posted another article showing that workers are buying the fascist feces Pierre is selling them. That's why it is working. Heaving forbid people recognize what is going on with Pierre, and maybe talk about it? It wouldn't be the first time a Conservative leader spouted bull#### to get elected, and then does the opposite once in power, or the first time voters vote against their own best interested because all they read was a slogan.


So maybe try it again, Firbot. Do you have any rational analysis to counter the article I posted discussing Pierre's fascist tendencies, and how they are similar to previous fascists in history? Or do you just want to make another flacid dunk attempt?

Every time you say Pierre I get a picture of the old Trudeau in my head- talk about fear mongering!

[The Fonz]

Organized sports are so fascist, it makes me sick

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They could, I guess. And the NDP could nationalize Canada’s banks and insurance companies if they formed the federal government. But it’s probably not worth losing sleep over.

Fair enough, but does the NDP have any MPs who have sponsored private bills seeking to nationalize some or all of Canada's banks? Or who have voted in favour of them? Does the NDP allow free conscience votes by its MPs on such matters?

If the answer to some of those questions is "no" (and I honestly don't know the answers), then we're talking about a different level of risk.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Fair enough, but does the NDP have any MPs who have sponsored private bills seeking to nationalize some or all of Canada's banks? Or who have voted in favour of them? Does the NDP allow free conscience votes by its MPs on such matters?

If the answer to some of those questions is "no" (and I honestly don't know the answers), then we're talking about a different level of risk.

Wasn't it an NDP bill to criminalize and jail people for even talking about fossil fuels? Something like $500,000 against individuals posting about it on the internet. Or to even mention the science that it's better to displace coal with natural gas/LNG?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Wasn't it an NDP bill to criminalize and jail people for even talking about fossil fuels? Something like $500,000 against individuals posting about it on the internet. Or to even mention the science that it's better to displace coal with natural gas/LNG?

Not sure if this was a rhetorical question or not, but no. It was not. I presume you are referring to Bill C-372.

The new bill would outlaw marketing that downplays the climate-altering emissions and health hazards associated with the industry, or promotes fossil fuels in ways that are false, misleading or deceptive.

SOURCE: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fos...hing-1.7106572

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You still haven't addressed the very reasonable issues brought up in the "far left article", so I have to assume they must be correct, because you can't counter the facts. Does Pierre communicate in fascist ways? Yes, yes he does.

I also don't support a party, but nice try. The party I did support once upon a time was taken over by these losers. Maybe that's why I'm so hard on them?

This is your very reasonable issue from that article? This is what you want to discuss?

This may seem like a stretch, at first. However, to compare Poilievre to figures like Hitler and Mussolini and identify significant overlap in their rhetoric (and some of their policies) does not mean that they are the same. It does not mean, for example, that Poilievre intends to intern and impose genocide upon Canada’s Liberals, Indigenous peoples, and LGBTQ2S+ communities the way Hitler did to Europe’s Jews, communists, Roma, and others. But the similarities in their social and economic values, and in their rhetoric, certainly speaks to the character of the Conservative Party leader.

Some have claimed that Poilievre’s rhetoric promotes an “anti-elite, anti-establishment angle.” This is as true of Poilievre as it was true of Hitler and Mussolini. The latter two fascists claimed to speak for the ordinary people of Germany and Italy, yet remained comfortably in bed with the bourgeoisies of their respective nations.

"Not saying he's Hitler or Mussolini but I will still completely compare the CPC and Poilievre to them because I want to" is a complete non starter of a joke of an article and it's frankly insulting for you and the usual suspects to continuously claim this is a discussion to consider.

What's the author's pedigree?

Nolan Long is an undergraduate student in political studies at the University of Saskatchewan

A student? this is what you chose to source to affirm your own views? Maybe there is more to this guy...



https://www.midwesternmarx.com/youth...-by-nolan-long

https://www.midwesternmarx.com/




Nolan Long is a Canadian undergraduate student in political studies, with a specific interest in Marxist political theory and history.

Oh...there is. Sure got me Fuzz again. You and the usual suspects sourced from a literal commie strongly devoted enough to join a commie youth league to teach us how a mainstream party in Canada is fascist

Again, point comes back to: You convince someone that the CPC is fascist through your convoluted and stretching of reality. Now what? Pressing Canadian issues that are causing folks to rebel against the Liberals and NDP has not been resolved.

You are desperate and unhinged as are the usuals seeing that a party you don't like is likely going to win and going off the rails.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Disagree. The federal government could amend the Criminal Code to make performing an abortion (ever or in certain circumstances) a criminal offence.

I mean, it's possible I guess.
First they have to get all those newly elected urban MP's to agree, doubtful but possible I suppose.
Then they need to get it through the Senate, 0.0001% chance of that.
Assuming they hold the families of about 70 Senators hostage to force it through then it goes to the Supreme Court and gets squashed there.
If they jump over all those hurdles then it gets overturned immediately next election and the CPC gets obliterated.

More likely that the meteor hits really.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

There are not any fascist parties running with a possible chance of winning.

Not with that attitude there isn't!

Originally Posted by Azure

Its also not far fetched that the incoming CP government sets up work camps and sends all their political opponents to work there.

So you're that confident people are going to vote for me?

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I mean, it's possible I guess.
First they have to get all those newly elected urban MP's to agree, doubtful but possible I suppose.
Then they need to get it through the Senate, 0.0001% chance of that.
Assuming they hold the families of about 70 Senators hostage to force it through then it goes to the Supreme Court and gets squashed there.
If they jump over all those hurdles then it gets overturned immediately next election and the CPC gets obliterated.

More likely that the meteor hits really.

Sure, but the fact that we're talking about the what-if scenarios and safe-guards that are in place, in the event that PP is the next PM is somewhat telling and concerning.

"I mean, sure, he likes to kick puppies but all the puppies are safely locked away. Vote Bob!"

[2Stonedbirds]

Also from Bill C-372:

promotion means a representation about a product or service by any means, whether directly or indirectly, including any communication of information about the product or service and its price and distribution, that is likely to influence and shape attitudes, beliefs and behaviours about the product or service

PromotionProhibition

6 It is prohibited for a person to promote a fossil fuel, a fossil fuel-related brand element or the production of a fossil fuel except as authorized by the provisions of this Act or of the regulations.


Promotion offences — other persons
(2) Every person, other than a producer, who contravenes section 6 is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500,000.


Files by persons actually goes up to 750,000. Worth reading the entire proposed bill.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/e.../first-reading

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Firebot

This is your very reasonable issue from that article? This is what you want to discuss?




"Not saying he's Hitler or Mussolini but I will still completely compare the CPC and Poilievre to them because I want to" is a complete non starter of a joke of an article and it's frankly insulting for you and the usual suspects to continuously claim this is a discussion to consider.

What's the author's pedigree?

Nolan Long is an undergraduate student in political studies at the University of Saskatchewan

A student? this is what you chose to source to affirm your own views? Maybe there is more to this guy...



https://www.midwesternmarx.com/youth...-by-nolan-long

https://www.midwesternmarx.com/




Nolan Long is a Canadian undergraduate student in political studies, with a specific interest in Marxist political theory and history.

Oh...there is. Sure got me Fuzz again. You and the usual suspects sourced from a literal commie strongly devoted enough to join a commie youth league to teach us how a mainstream party in Canada is fascist

Again, point comes back to: You convince someone that the CPC is fascist through your convoluted and stretching of reality. Now what? Pressing Canadian issues that are causing folks to rebel against the Liberals and NDP has not been resolved.

You are desperate and unhinged as are the usuals seeing that a party you don't like is likely going to win and going off the rails.

That's it, that's your rejection? Do you understand how to debate at all? You've discredited the author well enough, so good job, yet failed to address the fact that Pierre's rhetoric is facist-like. And then made up a statement that I am not saying(the bold bit). I don't care that the author is Marxist IF the points follow fact. And the fact is Pierre uses fascist rhetoric(as described in the article) while saying one thing and doing another.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Also from Bill C-372:

promotion means a representation about a product or service by any means, whether directly or indirectly, including any communication of information about the product or service and its price and distribution, that is likely to influence and shape attitudes, beliefs and behaviours about the product or service

PromotionProhibition

6 It is prohibited for a person to promote a fossil fuel, a fossil fuel-related brand element or the production of a fossil fuel except as authorized by the provisions of this Act or of the regulations.


Promotion offences — other persons
(2) Every person, other than a producer, who contravenes section 6 is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding $500,000.


Files by persons actually goes up to 750,000. Worth reading the entire proposed bill.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/e.../first-reading

Indeed.

Application
5 This Act does not apply in respect of

(a) a literary, dramatic, musical, cinematographic, scientific, educational or artistic work, production or performance that uses or depicts fossil fuels, fossil fuel-related brand elements or the production of fossil fuels, whatever the mode or form of its expression, if no consideration is given, directly or indirectly, by a producer, a retailer or an entity that has as one of its purposes to promote fossil fuels for that use or depiction in the work, production or performance;

(b) an opinion, commentary or report in respect of fossil fuels, fossil fuel-related brand elements or the production of fossil fuels if no consideration is given, directly or indirectly, by a producer, a retailer or an entity that has as one of its purposes to promote fossil fuels for the reference to the fossil fuels, fossil fuel-related brand elements or the production of fossil fuels in that opinion, commentary or report;

I do find this part very problematic though:

Manner of promotion and prohibited elements
8 It is prohibited for a person to promote a fossil fuel or the production of a fossil fuel

(a) in a manner that states or suggests that the fossil fuel, its production or its emissions are less harmful than other fossil fuels, their production or their emissions;

(b) in a manner that states or suggests that a fossil fuel or the practices of a producer or of the fossil fuel industry would lead to positive outcomes in relation to the environment, the health of Canadians, reconciliation with Indigenous peoples or the Canadian or global economy; or

I assumed that a prohibition like this would also be qualified by something like "if incorrect or misleading". It does not. That's bad.