2024 Off-season trade rumours and speculation thread

[flambers]

Whole offer sheet discussion is just strange, Flames will have veterans within this lineup.

They are not going to rip the team apart, type of a rebuild...

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by flambers

Whole offer sheet discussion is just strange, Flames will have veterans within this lineup.

They are not going to rip the team apart, type of a rebuild...

No one rips it apart completely. Chicago and San Jose still had veteran, big contracts.

The Flames have already done one of the most drastic tear downs in the salary cap era, and there free agency activity clearly illustrates they're committed to this path (and have a 3-5 year plan).

Yeah, offsheets make zero sense at this stage.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

No, that's not my argument at all. The numbers, in particular, you made up yourself.

My argument is that you don't spend the money on a player who isn't worth that salary. Every GM knows just how quickly cap space can run out if you start overpaying players. Remember when Treliving was overpaying guys, and it didn't matter because the team was rebuilding? Oops.

To overpay a player and give up an asset for the right to do so is foolish – which is why offer sheets are so very rare.

At this point, I'm not positive either Holloway or Broberg is worth an early 2nd-round pick straight up. (Don't talk about their draft position. That's water under the bridge, and besides, they were drafted and developed by the Oilers, who are not good at either of those things.) They certainly haven't done anything to earn a salary in the range where a 2nd would be the compensation.

Fine, take all Oilers players out of the discussion. I am just saying the concept it is bad is baffling to me. I will list a couple players, just want to confirm that you actually think the correct answer is no on all these players because of the concern about using too much cap space and wrecking your future salary structure.

New Jersey Devils - currently have 4.9 million in cap space and have to sign 3 players. Also have no players of significant cap value dropping off their balance sheet in the next two years and they have to sign Hughes and Nemec to big deals.

offer sheet Dawson Mercer a 2 year deal worth 9 million. 3.5 million in year one, 5.5 million in year two. Qualifying offer in year two when they have to sign Nemec would be 5.5 million or he walks to UfA. Cost to the Flames - a high second round pick.

That is an offer the Devils would have to think about, I suspect Dawson Mercer is worth a lot more than a 2025 2nd round pick. He is 23 for this upcoming year.

Your position is that it does not make sense because you have to give up both a 2nd rounder and you think 4.5 million a year is an overpay for a current 22 year old who has put up back to back 20 goal seasons?

To a lesser extent because the teams are not in the same salary cap crunch you could go after Schneider and Perfetti with the same type of contract.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Your position is that it does not make sense because you have to give up both a 2nd rounder and you think 4.5 million a year is an overpay for a current 22 year old who has put up back to back 20 goal seasons?

4.5 isn't an overpay for Mercer though and New Jersey would match it. Mercer's comparable is the contract Lundell just signed. To get him to sign an offersheet the Flames would be giving up a 1st round pick.

4.5 for the Oiler's pair is a huge overpay.

[Vinny01]

I don’t think the offer sheet talk is that crazy if the Flames think the player is going to be a long term fit on the roster and the compensation is a 2nd.

One way I see this flames rebuild being successful is having guys like Zary, Wolf, Coronato, Pelletier, Gridin all be key players on the team where hopefully Parekh, the 25 1st, 26 1st are going to be our franchise players. So in 3-4 years if those guys are panning out having a 25-26 year old Holloway be a top 6 forward would be a win in my books.

The cost has to make sense and a 2nd for a guy who you think could be a top 6 forward for you team for a decade is a fair deal

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think the offer sheet talk is that crazy if the Flames think the player is going to be a long term fit on the roster and the compensation is a 2nd.

One way I see this flames rebuild being successful is having guys like Zary, Wolf, Coronato, Pelletier, Gridin all be key players on the team where hopefully Parekh, the 25 1st, 26 1st are going to be our franchise players. So in 3-4 years if those guys are panning out having a 25-26 year old Holloway be a top 6 forward would be a win in my books.

The cost has to make sense and a 2nd for a guy who you think could be a top 6 forward for you team for a decade is a fair deal

Offer sheets are a fast forward button at this stage. Doing it could impact those 2025 and 2026 1st round draft picks that are absolutely crucial to the success of this build.

Offer sheets are also generally stupid. They don't work out well for the 'acquiring' team most of the time.

Jesperi Kotkaniemi: Montreal lost the player, Brutal for Carolina
Sebastian Aho: Carolina retained the player
Ryan O'Reilly: Hilariously inept Jay Feaster, Colorado retained the player
Shea Weber: Nashville retained the player
Niklas Hjalmarsson: Chicago retained the player
Steve Bernier: Chicago retained the player
David Backes: St. Louis retained the player
Dustin Penner: Moronic for Edmonton
Thomas Vanek: Buffalo retained the player
Ryan Kelser: Vancouver retained the player

Notice something? No player that brought the offer sheet forward has had any success related to the offer sheet process. Whether they ended up acquiring a lemon, or just didn't get the player - it was a waste of time and assets.

The idea that an offer sheet is a good idea, especially at this point for the Flames, is incorrect. It would be a bad idea.

[Vinny01]

I don’t think there is a flames fan out there wanting to do an offer sheet where the compensation is a 1st round pick. So if the Oilers match the Flames offer sheet that still puts them in deeper cap hell so not getting the player and hurting our rival still is a win.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think there is a flames fan out there wanting to do an offer sheet where the compensation is a 1st round pick. So if the Oilers match the Flames offer sheet that still puts them in deeper cap hell so not getting the player and hurting our rival still is a win.

Not in the long run. Katz is a vindictive SOB and will strike back.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think there is a flames fan out there wanting to do an offer sheet where the compensation is a 1st round pick. So if the Oilers match the Flames offer sheet that still puts them in deeper cap hell so not getting the player and hurting our rival still is a win.

Why mess up internal cap structures to get one over on a rival when it cost real dollars and picks if they don't match. It is a fun idea as a fan but a GM isn't going to bother with it.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Not in the long run. Katz is a vindictive SOB and will strike back.

Yup. The whole KK mess was because Dundon was big mad.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Why mess up internal cap structures to get one over on a rival when it cost real dollars and picks if they don't match. It is a fun idea as a fan but a GM isn't going to bother with it.

All comes down to the Flames believing Holloway is a player and if they don’t then agreed it makes no sense.

I think if they want him before going the offer sheet route they could offer to take Ceci off the Oilers hands and give up the pick they got for Mangiapane? That would give the Oilers room to sign Broberg and the Flames get an asset they can flip at the deadline and the 22 year old local kid.

My ultimate point is if the Flames think they can add a player under 23 using their cap space and opportunity then it is not fast tracking the rebuild or anything like that since the compensation will not be a 1st and they hopefully are getting a player they think will be part of their long term core

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t think there is a flames fan out there wanting to do an offer sheet where the compensation is a 1st round pick. So if the Oilers match the Flames offer sheet that still puts them in deeper cap hell so not getting the player and hurting our rival still is a win.

The Flames outright can’t do an offer sheet with a 1st round compensation.

The idea though is that if an offer sheet that has a compensation of a 2nd round pick is successful, you put yourself at risk of:

1. You improve the immediate roster which will have a negative impact on the Calgary Flames own 2025 1st round pick. That 2025 1st round draft pick is the single most important asset that the Calgary Flames own with how their roster is currently constructed. The goal is to make that a top-5 pick.
2. You acquire an Oilers player, which is disgusting
3. Even if it’s successful, it likely just bumps our drafting position a spot or two (best case scenario), which then also means you just gave the Oilers a high quality 2nd round pick, which is bad

You risk that just to potentially spite the Oilers? Hell no.

Conroy has said how important the draft is. You know what teams didn’t go out and do stupid offer sheets at this stage? Colorado, Tampa, Chicago, LA, Florida, St. Louis, Vegas. You know why? It’s because that’s Not how you build a winner.

A good reason why we need to be patient:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1809275051746947218

Conroy and company need more picks, not less. Targeting recent Oiler draft picks is not the right path, largely because their players aren’t good enough to justify it in the first place.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames outright can’t do an offer sheet with a 1st round compensation.

The idea though is that if an offer sheet that has a compensation of a 2nd round pick is successful, you put yourself at risk of:

1. You improve the immediate roster which will have a negative impact on the Calgary Flames own 2025 1st round pick. That 2025 1st round draft pick is the single most important asset that the Calgary Flames own with how their roster is currently constructed. The goal is to make that a top-5 pick.
2. You acquire an Oilers player, which is disgusting
3. Even if it’s successful, it likely just bumps our drafting position a spot or two (best case scenario), which then also means you just gave the Oilers a high quality 2nd round pick, which is bad

You risk that just to potentially spite the Oilers? Hell no.

Conroy has said how important the draft is. You know what teams didn’t go out and do stupid offer sheets at this stage? Colorado, Tampa, Chicago, LA, Florida, St. Louis, Vegas. You know why? It’s because that’s Not how you build a winner.

A good reason why we need to be patient:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1809275051746947218

Conroy and company need more picks, not less. Targeting recent Oiler draft picks is not the right path, largely because their players aren’t good enough to justify it in the first place.

Sorry man not buying any of those points. I do not think Holloway is the difference between the 5th pick and the 8th pick in the draft. Stealing a Calgary kid from Edmonton is not disgusting.

End of the day you are missing my point. If you can add a 22 year old who you think is going to be a core player for the cost of a 2nd rounder who would likely be 5-8 years away from making an impact on the team if at all is not a steep price nor does it fast track where the Flames are at.

If this team is pushing to be competitive by the time the building opens moves like this can make sense. I personally don’t care if they sign Holloway or not to an offer sheet I just disagree that it is any sort of fast tracking a rebuild.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

End of the day you are missing my point. If you can add a 22 year old who you think is going to be a core player for the cost of a 2nd rounder who would likely be 5-8 years away from making an impact on the team if at all is not a steep price nor does it fast track where the Flames are at.

Yeah, if the Flames think he is a core piece then Oilers probably do as well and they will match it and then figure out the cap. I think the guys that can be pried away with an offer sheet are ones teams wouldn’t want.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sorry man not buying any of those points. I do not think Holloway is the difference between the 5th pick and the 8th pick in the draft. Stealing a Calgary kid from Edmonton is not disgusting.

End of the day you are missing my point. If you can add a 22 year old who you think is going to be a core player for the cost of a 2nd rounder who would likely be 5-8 years away from making an impact on the team if at all is not a steep price nor does it fast track where the Flames are at.

If this team is pushing to be competitive by the time the building opens moves like this can make sense. I personally don’t care if they sign Holloway or not to an offer sheet I just disagree that it is any sort of fast tracking a rebuild.

Would you trade Basha for Holloway straight up today? I wouldn't.

That's the level of prospect you're potentially trading if you give them you second round pick.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Would you trade Basha for Holloway straight up today? I wouldn't.

That's the level of prospect you're potentially trading if you give them you second round pick.

Probably not but go back to look at the history of Flames 2nd round picks and Andersson is the only legit guy. Sure you have Dube, Kylington who made the league but neither is in the flames plan before they turn 27/28 years old.

Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Tyler Parsons, William. Strogmen, Toppi Ronni. Trade any of those guys for Holloway. Might say the same about Basha but too early to say

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Would you trade Basha for Holloway straight up today? I wouldn't.

That's the level of prospect you're potentially trading if you give them you second round pick.

Take out Basha and insert Topi Ronni or Etienne Morin.

Your conclusion doesn't change in the level of prospect you are giving them.

That being said, so few offer sheets are ever offered and signed for a reason.

They very very rarely work.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Kadri has plenty of extended family in Calgary, many moved from London to Calgary when he signed his long term deal.

I know for a fact this isn't true.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

I know for a fact this isn't true.

Interesting take considering i know one of the family members quite well myself

[Wastedyouth]

Fight fight fight!!!