[Trade] Flames trade Mangiapane to Capitals for COL 2025 2nd

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why I should care what Frank S thinks? If you're likely to get the same or similar return at the trade deadline, all other things being equal, then the remaining variable is the timing of the trade.

But we'll see, if he puts up 20-30 goals next season and the Caps aren't in a playoff spot, we'll see what they get for him at the trade deadline.

A slightly better 2nd lol. A 4th if he has a bad season

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

All we know is that one GM was prepared to pay a 2nd now, after the player being shopped for some time.
If that GM fills his need elsewhere, including by spending that 2nd, why do you think another GM would automatically ALSO be willing to pay a 2nd for him?

Just because one GM offered a 2nd, doesn't mean others will in the future.

Right. But one instance of something is actually evidence for it happening again. This is called induction.

Induction is a form of reasoning where past instances of an event happening lead us to believe that similar events will occur in the future.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They jumped at the offer, which suggests this is the first time a 2nd has actually been on the table.

Don't think we know this? What is your source?

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

There were tons of games last year where very affordable ticket were available

Either they don’t know how to use the internet or what they actually mean is “there’s not affordable tickets for a weekend game vs an opponent I want to see”

Many Tuesday games last season you couldn’t give away

Chances are there will be more of these this year as well. Which as a guy who wants to take his kids to a game on the weekend, not Tuesday, is looking forward to.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Right. But one instance of something is actually evidence for it happening again. This is called induction.

Induction is a form of reasoning where past instances of an event happening lead us to believe that similar events will occur in the future.



Don't think we know this? What is your source?

He inferred this. An inference is when a conclusion is reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.

The Flames traded Mangiapane for a 2nd rounder.
It is a valid inference to suggest they did not get any 2nd rounders before, or they would have taken it, or not taken this and held out for more.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why I should care what Frank S thinks? If you're likely to get the same or similar return at the trade deadline, all other things being equal, then the remaining variable is the timing of the trade.

But we'll see, if he puts up 20-30 goals next season and the Caps aren't in a playoff spot, we'll see what they get for him at the trade deadline.

Again, I don't think you are considering the most important factor here. It's not that Mangiapane couple have maybe returned slightly more at the deadline, its that he will be taking a roster spot from someone that needs it for development in a development year (Pelletier). Trade Mangiapane now open up the spot, and if you are only going to get a slightly better return at the deadline (debatable), then trade him now to address the Flames glut of wingers and open up spots for players that have a future with the Flames.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What a weird thing to complain about. Some people complain about everything.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What a weird thing to complain about. Some people complain about everything.

Yup, and then if Conroy held on to him and got a 3rd at the deadline I bet it wouldn’t have been good enough lol.

Although, I have lost one of my favourite things to complain about which is watching Mangiapane fall over 20 times a game

[BigThief]

I totally follow the deadline line of thinking but the most I'd expect to get for him is a second. Conroy got that now, happy with it

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why I should care what Frank S thinks? If you're likely to get the same or similar return at the trade deadline, all other things being equal, then the remaining variable is the timing of the trade.

But we'll see, if he puts up 20-30 goals next season and the Caps aren't in a playoff spot, we'll see what they get for him at the trade deadline.

Frank S is just a talking head example of someone in the media saying good job flames.

I think the thing is, your scenario could happen, or it could equally not. I don't know, are you not happy with a 2nd round pick? Are you not happy with Conroy's work overall? I want to say the latter, which is fair, but if so, then don't let overall impression colour one particular item. And this coming from someone who was not an initial fan of the Conroy hire but overall now thinks he has done pretty well in a tough situation.

[Enoch Root]

Could Mangiapane return more at the deadline, with retention? Maybe.

But keep in mind, we also have the $5.8M available ALL YEAR to generate more value with. The return isn't just a 2nd, it's a 2nd plus whatever they can do with the space.

Waiting until the deadline would mean that we would need to do better than the 2nd plus the space utilization.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Could Mangiapane return more at the deadline, with retention? Maybe.

But keep in mind, we also have the $5.8M available ALL YEAR to generate more value with. The return isn't just a 2nd, it's a 2nd plus whatever they can do with the space.

Waiting until the deadline would mean that we would need to do better than the 2nd plus the space utilization.

All that I can imagine is a second plus a player. And that's going to be a later second because it will be a team that is a high PO seed.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Could Mangiapane return more at the deadline, with retention? Maybe.

But keep in mind, we also have the $5.8M available ALL YEAR to generate more value with. The return isn't just a 2nd, it's a 2nd plus whatever they can do with the space.

Waiting until the deadline would mean that we would need to do better than the 2nd plus the space utilization.

Having two slots for retention is also valuable. Kuzmenko or Coleman are options for that plus the random 3rd party retention play at the deadline.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Locke

As a fan who doesnt attend many games, I am unconcerned with attendance. Its not my money.

That being said, thats a pretty good way of looking at it. I'm fine with that. A whole new generation of Flames fans.

Besides, if I had to live through the Young Guns Era, they should too! We as Flames fans need to Unite through Misery!

Now. Where can we get a budget camera crew and a trombone?

The Young Guns era really sucked…it wasn’t so much the losing but the fact that we were really trapped at the bottom by being a small market Canadian team competing against big market teams without a salary cap with an extremely weak Canadian dollar.

Losing will be tough but, if we are trapped at the bottom of the league, it will be due to bad management decisions and poor development rather than being structurally trapped at the bottom of the league.

[Super-Rye]

Really solid trade. Flames are swimming in young wingers. Coronato, Pelletier, Klapka are all knocking on the door, plus Zary and Pospisil kicked down the door last year. Love that Connie is making room for the kids.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If Conroy can get a late 2nd for Mangiapane without retention, what is Kuzmenko's worth?

About the same I wager. They have different strengths and weaknesses but I figure their overall value is probably pretty comparable.

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Really solid trade. Flames are swimming in young wingers. Coronato, Pelletier, Klapka are all knocking on the door, plus Zary and Pospisil kicked down the door last year. Love that Connie is making room for the kids.

I think you have to wait until the end of July before you can say that... see if the room for them was in fact made rather then just spent on a middling vet in free agency.

[Matty81]

Yeah I agree, pretty happy with the return and the cap space - this felt a bit like an NHL on playstation tear down trade that doesn't happen that much in real life, clear 6 mil in cap space and an underperforming guy approaching 30 for a good pick.

Hoping Andersson is gone next, I know the team needs to keep some vets around but moving him for another high pick would be the dream scenario

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Parallex

About the same I wager. They have different strengths and weaknesses but I figure their overall value is probably pretty comparable.

Yeah, Mangiapane is an advanced stats darling who is good defensively. Kuzmenko can score.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by D as in David

If Conroy can get a late 2nd for Mangiapane without retention, what is Kuzmenko's worth? Mangiapane did have good underlying numbers but hasn't been able to regain his scoring touch. Does a potential 40 goal scored in Kuz with questionable defensive skills get the Flames more?

I don't see any playoff team wanting to pick up Kuzmenko, which really limits his value. As a powerplay specialist who has significant defensive liabilities I think that he is worth a mid to late second round pick.

The players who get a kings ransom at the trade deadline are players like Coleman or Foligno, where there is a history of playoff performance or a toughness that is appreciated in the playoffs.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We are going to see some outright horrifying zero entertainment value level hockey over the next few years.


Remember the Young Guns era, this will be worse.

I wasn't around for the Young Guns. But it can't be any worse than the 2023 season was. It just can't be

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I wasn't around for the Young Guns. But it can't be any worse than the 2023 season was. It just can't be

Then its obvious you weren't around.