[Trade] Flames trade Mangiapane to Capitals for COL 2025 2nd

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Andrew Mangiapane Career stats

7 Seasons 417GP 109G 106A 215Pts

That is enough to make him 42nd all time in Points for the Flames, and 31st in Goals, while being 36th in Games Played.

Rough math,
* 109G / 7 seasons = 15.5 goals/season
* take out his 35 goal season, and you end up with 74 G/6 seasons = ~ 12 goals/season.
* 109G/417 GP = ~0.26 goals per game
* take out the 35 goal season (82 gp), 74g/335 GP = ~0.22 goals per game

Pretty good getting a 2nd rounder in return.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Rough math,
* 109G / 7 seasons = 15.5 goals/season
* take out his 35 goal season, and you end up with 74 G/6 seasons = ~ 12 goals/season.
* 109G/417 GP = ~0.26 goals per game
* take out the 35 goal season (82 gp), 74g/335 GP = ~0.22 goals per game

Pretty good getting a 2nd rounder in return.

That doesn't work because he only played 3 full seasons.
Two seasons he was a prospect playing up and down between the AHL and NHL
Two seasons were Covid Shortened seasons.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Aren't the reasons pretty clear?
1. You don't know if you can get a 2nd at the deadline
2. You don't get the advantage of the cap space you just cleared, that can be used in all sorts of ways

Agreed, and I think the other big reason you trade him now vs the deadline, is that he is blocking a developing player (ie Pelletier, Coronato) from getting the NHL time needed to take the next step.

Keeping Mangiapane means you, at best, hold out for what, a late 1st at the deadline? (knowing that upcoming UFA winger typically dont get that level of return) and then you hold back a prospect that couple be developing on the 3rd line with Backlund and Coleman.

Trading him now was always the right play, and Conroy managed to get a very good return in a 2nd.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Aren't the reasons pretty clear?
1. You don't know if you can get a 2nd at the deadline
2. You don't get the advantage of the cap space you just cleared, that can be used in all sorts of ways

He isn't very injury prone. Only missed 7 games in the past three seasons. Including playing all 82 games two of the last three.

If he has a bounce back season and ends up on pace for 20-30 goals by the trade deadline, Flames could have retained 50% on an expiring contract to sweeten the return. Either way, he was still likely to post 40 something points given his track record.

Guess what I'm saying is if he's worth a second round pick now, after a 40 point season, he's probably still worth around that at the trade deadline, but at that point you can retain on his contract to make him even more valuable to a playoff team.

But we'll see what Conroy does with the cap space I guess.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Guess what I'm saying is if he's worth a second round pick now, after a 40 point season, he's probably still worth around that at the trade deadline, but at that point you can retain on his contract to make him even more valuable to a playoff team.

Not true though. He was worth a second to one GM right now and very well could have been the one GM. Sometimes GMs do dumb things like with Colorado and Berra

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by keenan87

For those worried about filling seats.. I look forward to the mid and low income families finally being able to attend games without paying crazy high prices.

There are many folks who I know that haven't been to a game ever because they just can't afford the $100-$200 per person.

I call BS

There were tons of games last year where very affordable ticket were available

Either they don’t know how to use the internet or what they actually mean is “there’s not affordable tickets for a weekend game vs an opponent I want to see”

Many Tuesday games last season you couldn’t give away

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Guess what I'm saying is if he's worth a second round pick now, after a 40 point season, he's probably still worth around that at the trade deadline, but at that point you can retain on his contract to make him even more valuable to a playoff team.
.

This gets back to my point earlier. Its one random guy, and love him or hate, but Frank S said you do the above at the trade deadline the 2nd rounder was the ceiling - with likely retaining money. I.e. he is suggesting that the above scenario you put forth was not likely to happen.

Just one guy, I get it. But....its ok to say a bregrudging "good job" every once in a while, it won't hurt.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Not true though. He was worth a second to one GM right now and very well could have been the one GM. Sometimes GMs do dumb things like with Colorado and Berra

Not sure how this is not true? Do GMs become more or less dumb at the trade deadline?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Rough math,
* 109G / 7 seasons = 15.5 goals/season
* take out his 35 goal season, and you end up with 74 G/6 seasons = ~ 12 goals/season.
* 109G/417 GP = ~0.26 goals per game
* take out the 35 goal season (82 gp), 74g/335 GP = ~0.22 goals per game

Pretty good getting a 2nd rounder in return.

As per TheIronMaiden's comment:

417 games played
109 goals
=.26 goals per game.

215 points
= .515 points per game.

Pretty great for a 6th rounder...

if you want to take out his best season (not sure why, but OK...)

74 goals in 335 games = .22 goals per game
160 points in 335 games = .477 points per game.

Still pretty darn good...

I liked him, thought he brought a lot to the table, great hard work success story, slightly overpaid for what he did the last two seasons, and fine to move on from him.

Return and timing both seem about right to me.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

That doesn't work because he only played 3 full seasons.
Two seasons he was a prospect playing up and down between the AHL and NHL
Two seasons were Covid Shortened seasons.

Fair enough, but if he look at his past handful of seasons, its not far off. And yes, rookie, covid, etc etc, but so far, cumulatively, this is his body of work. AT 28 or 29 yrs old or whatever he is.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure how this is not true? Do GMs become more or less dumb at the trade deadline?

Guys like Mangi don’t return more than a second at the TDL
I believe Toffoli returned a 2nd and he had a much better track record

A lot of what ifs for something you can get now and free up the cap space for the whole year

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure how this is not true? Do GMs become more or less dumb at the trade deadline?

You are making a lot of assumptions.

If we give you they maybe get more at the deadline (say and extra later round pick or something?), its equally as likely he scores 10 goals. Or is injured.

Or the trade market is flooded with similar or even better players, so his value goes in the tank.

I don't know, a 2nd rounder with no retention and pretty much everyone thinks the flames did quite well.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure how this is not true? Do GMs become more or less dumb at the trade deadline?

My point was that he didn’t carry that value league wide and the Capitals really wanted him and were fine overpaying to get him for a full season. Same with Colorado and Berra.

[agulati]

Originally Posted by BagoPucks

Surprised we havent made a thank you Mang thread. I think he was an important piece in the locker room and never really found it last year following the Sutter firing/Dube terminatiion season. A change of pace is going to help a guy like him. Wish him well in Washington and he is going to be missed in the room. Thanks again for working your ass off and turning into one of our developmental success stories for this franchise in recent years

I’ll go ahead and make one

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure how this is not true? Do GMs become more or less dumb at the trade deadline?

All we know is that one GM was prepared to pay a 2nd now, after the player being shopped for some time.
If that GM fills his need elsewhere, including by spending that 2nd, why do you think another GM would automatically ALSO be willing to pay a 2nd for him?

Just because one GM offered a 2nd, doesn't mean others will in the future.

They jumped at the offer, which suggests this is the first time a 2nd has actually been on the table.

[Flamesfan05]

Btw 6M cap space for a year is worth at least a 2nd for some teams

Treliving paid a 1st for Monahan who only made 1M more

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Btw 6M cap space for a year is worth at least a 2nd for some teams

Treliving paid a 1st for Monahan who only made 1M more

Conroy is a better GM though.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Conroy is a better GM though.

lol no kidding

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

This gets back to my point earlier. Its one random guy, and love him or hate, but Frank S said you do the above at the trade deadline the 2nd rounder was the ceiling - with likely retaining money. I.e. he is suggesting that the above scenario you put forth was not likely to happen.

Not sure why I should care what Frank S thinks? If you're likely to get the same or similar return at the trade deadline, all other things being equal, then the remaining variable is the timing of the trade.

But we'll see, if he puts up 20-30 goals next season and the Caps aren't in a playoff spot, we'll see what they get for him at the trade deadline.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Not sure why I should care what Frank S thinks? If you're likely to get the same or similar return at the trade deadline, all other things being equal, then the remaining variable is the timing of the trade.

But we'll see, if he puts up 20-30 goals next season and the Caps aren't in a playoff spot, we'll see what they get for him at the trade deadline.

And if he puts up 5 goals or blows out his shoulder, we'll see what the Caps get for him at the trade deadline.

This is definitely a bird in the hand scenario for me, as there may be no birds in the bush in March...