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Old 06-21-2024, 11:47 AM   #5941
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Honestly don't see either move occurring, just passing along what I heard.

I do see the Flames trying what Friedman suggested, overpaying UFAs on 2 or 3 year deals where they can.
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Old 06-21-2024, 11:48 AM   #5942
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Biznasty apparently reporting the Leafs are working on an extension with Marner. Never change, Toronto.
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Old 06-21-2024, 11:55 AM   #5943
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I don't see a contender paying Monahan enough, so maybe Calgary offers him more and it comes together for a year or 2.
If he plays well, we could trade him to a contender for a playoff run.

Gives fans something to watch, sells jerseys and doesn't move the needle enough to ruin our rebuild draft positions. I get why the team's looking at it.
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Old 06-21-2024, 12:00 PM   #5944
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No to Gio. That chapter is closed.

Yes to Monny.
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Old 06-21-2024, 12:04 PM   #5945
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No to Gio. That chapter is closed.

Yes to Monny.
Is Kadri making the phone call to Gio to bring him back?
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Old 06-21-2024, 12:08 PM   #5946
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Would Giordano prefer not every game become a riot again?
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Old 06-21-2024, 12:11 PM   #5947
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Debrusk is also linked to the Leafs. I think that makes more sense.
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Old 06-21-2024, 12:32 PM   #5948
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Gio would be a good vet to help bring young guys along, and he wouldn't move the needle on helping the team win. To me it would be a win/win scenario.

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Old 06-21-2024, 12:33 PM   #5949
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Ya it is pretty clear now it is a full on rebuild.

I think for anyone that was wavering, I would say that the Markstrom trade essentially erases any doubt of what the Flames are in - a rebuild.


To kickstart this rebuild, they have a lot of draft ammo, plus they have a high number of legitimately good prospects already. This team is deep going into this rebuild. What does this mean? Let's see who figures this out:


Defencemen (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Miromanov (He isn't young... but not old. I'll plop him here)

Pachal

Poirier
Brzustewicz
Jurmo
Grushnikov
Kuznetstov
Solovyov
Morin
Hurtig
Bahl
Okhotyiuk (own his rights anyway)
Boltman (Rights expire Aug 15, but doubt he is signed).
Lerby (2025)
Rafikov (c'mon man, just come to one camp - you have Russian friends now!)


What does everyone see with this group? I think you have guys with ceilings of #2 defencemen: Poirier, Brzustewicz and Morin. I like Morin out of the group the best, but I doubt there is a real #1 guy here. I would say it is more likely these 3 will be 3/4 defencemen. Then the next group have ceilings of 3/4, with some ending up as very good 5/6 defencemen. There is a lot of depth here, and a lot of defencemen that are tracking well given their ages. I am not worried about the Flames not having enough depth on defence coming out of this rebuild. What they need is #1/2 defencemen.



Forwards (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Zary
Pospisil
Coronato
Pelletier (RFA - obvious re-sign)

Honzek
Stromgren
Morton
Bell
Kerins
Nikolayev
Ciona
Damiani (RFA - I think the Flames cut bait here)
Klapka (RFA obvious re-sign)
Schwindt (RFA - probably re-sign)
Ben Jones (UFA - not sure if re-signed)

Suniev
Lipinski
Littler


I might have missed some (or included some that the Flames did not retain). Either way, what is the breakdown with forwards? Again, lots of support players. There is the potential here that a couple of players step-up and become top-line players, but in my opinion, this is a very deep group that tops-out at 2nd line players. Some centres, playmakers, scorers, size and grit - this is a fairly deep group, especially given that the Flames have spent a lot of picks under Treliving.



Goalies - I am including Vladar as he is still young enough, but in no particular order:
Vladar
Wolf
Ignatjew
Yegorov
Sergeev
Chechelev


I would argue that this is the only position organizationally that the Flames shouldn't be concerned with, though I do think that they draft a goalie this year. The standouts to me are Wolf and Sergeev. I argue Vladar is an unknown quantity due to his injury and utilization since coming here. Ignatjew seems like a good add on paper, but no idea other than stats when it comes to him (and those are good). Chechelev looked promising, but has faltered, but perhaps he finds his groove again. Yegorov was just drafted and seems to have had a good season. I would be very shocked if there isn't a starter here. I actually think there is a starter/tandem here. Still, better to draft a few more than scramble down the road trying to draft and trade for established vets who wasted a a few years' of the core (Elliott, Smith, etc).


What this organization needs to do is find top pairing elite defencemen and top-line elite forwards. This prospect pool will probably be rated above average right now. That's a very, very good spot to be in as the draft is still next week.


Edmonton continually drafted high, but they never did anything through their rebuild until recently because they had a terrible draft record outside their lottery picks. They were never able to build a decent team. Calgary is already doing that, with some kids already difference makers (Zary, Pospisil), some players already getting a good dose of experience (Pelletier, Coronato, Solovyov, Pachal, Miromanov, Bahl (in NJ), Okhotyiuk, Wolf, Vladar), and a few more who got a bit of a look last year and whom I bet we will see more of this upcoming season (Kuznetsov, Klapka). Obviously there will be a lot of these kids that won't make it, and if they do, won't be staying long as they won't move the needle enough. However, there is a great base to work-off of. Given how well the Flames have drafted in the recent past, with the same scouts still around and the GM being a functioning member of that staff throughout his tenure in Calgary, I see no reason why we can't expect to churn out more NHL'ers. What is nice to see as well is that there is a lot of size and even toughness in the pool as well.



Conroy now has the relative luxury of being able to 'gamble' a bit more. I still imagine that the list will be drawn up the same way, but now the Flames can probably feel a little more comfortable in taking some 'high risk' players with high ceilings but low floors. Flames won't do this throughout the draft, but I bet they do this a little more. The goal right now is to find high-end difference makers at every position. Find the best players possible. Flames already have a nice collection of support players, they just need to get out of this draft with high-end players. Yes, easier said than done, and of course that should be the focus with every draft. They also have a decent contingent of vets to keep the culture going - Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau (he works hard), Kadri (though I suspect he will be traded), Andersson (I think he will get traded), Kylington (I expect him to be-resigned) and Weegar.



Some teams have trouble doing it. Vancouver had trouble with depth players to surround and insulate guys like Pettersen, Boeser and Hughes. Edmonton had trouble doing that for the last 20 years until recently when they hit on guys like Bouchard, yet they still had to trade for a lot of their depth rather than develop them themselves. Calgary just needs to focus on one thing - high end core pieces.


I am not saying it is easier, but at least there is a better focus on what needs to be accomplished. Lots of ammo spread over the next 3 drafts (and counting - I expect more trades to happen for futures from now until the deadline). This is undoubtedly a rebuild, and a fairly deep one at that given how many pieces have moved. Just take a look and compare the work that Conroy has done relative to other GMs that have 'torn it down' in a scorched-earth rebuild, and I believe Conroy has traded away more players than most of them.


The Flames just happened to be a very deep team top to bottom. Their prospect pool mirrors them very well actually - deep, but no real stars or high-end difference makers. Time to draft those, and turn this team around 2-3 years from now. This is still not a 'scorched earth' because Calgary is so deep, but this is undoubtedly a proper rebuild, and I love to see it. This will take a few years, but I have absolute faith that the Flames come out of this looking very good.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:01 PM   #5950
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Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe View Post
I think for anyone that was wavering, I would say that the Markstrom trade essentially erases any doubt of what the Flames are in - a rebuild.


To kickstart this rebuild, they have a lot of draft ammo, plus they have a high number of legitimately good prospects already. This team is deep going into this rebuild. What does this mean? Let's see who figures this out:


Defencemen (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Miromanov (He isn't young... but not old. I'll plop him here)

Pachal

Poirier
Brzustewicz
Jurmo
Grushnikov
Kuznetstov
Solovyov
Morin
Hurtig
Bahl
Okhotyiuk (own his rights anyway)
Boltman (Rights expire Aug 15, but doubt he is signed).
Lerby (2025)
Rafikov (c'mon man, just come to one camp - you have Russian friends now!)


What does everyone see with this group? I think you have guys with ceilings of #2 defencemen: Poirier, Brzustewicz and Morin. I like Morin out of the group the best, but I doubt there is a real #1 guy here. I would say it is more likely these 3 will be 3/4 defencemen. Then the next group have ceilings of 3/4, with some ending up as very good 5/6 defencemen. There is a lot of depth here, and a lot of defencemen that are tracking well given their ages. I am not worried about the Flames not having enough depth on defence coming out of this rebuild. What they need is #1/2 defencemen.



Forwards (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Zary
Pospisil
Coronato
Pelletier (RFA - obvious re-sign)

Honzek
Stromgren
Morton
Bell
Kerins
Nikolayev
Ciona
Damiani (RFA - I think the Flames cut bait here)
Klapka (RFA obvious re-sign)
Schwindt (RFA - probably re-sign)
Ben Jones (UFA - not sure if re-signed)

Suniev
Lipinski
Littler


I might have missed some (or included some that the Flames did not retain). Either way, what is the breakdown with forwards? Again, lots of support players. There is the potential here that a couple of players step-up and become top-line players, but in my opinion, this is a very deep group that tops-out at 2nd line players. Some centres, playmakers, scorers, size and grit - this is a fairly deep group, especially given that the Flames have spent a lot of picks under Treliving.



Goalies - I am including Vladar as he is still young enough, but in no particular order:
Vladar
Wolf
Ignatjew
Yegorov
Sergeev
Chechelev


I would argue that this is the only position organizationally that the Flames shouldn't be concerned with, though I do think that they draft a goalie this year. The standouts to me are Wolf and Sergeev. I argue Vladar is an unknown quantity due to his injury and utilization since coming here. Ignatjew seems like a good add on paper, but no idea other than stats when it comes to him (and those are good). Chechelev looked promising, but has faltered, but perhaps he finds his groove again. Yegorov was just drafted and seems to have had a good season. I would be very shocked if there isn't a starter here. I actually think there is a starter/tandem here. Still, better to draft a few more than scramble down the road trying to draft and trade for established vets who wasted a a few years' of the core (Elliott, Smith, etc).


What this organization needs to do is find top pairing elite defencemen and top-line elite forwards. This prospect pool will probably be rated above average right now. That's a very, very good spot to be in as the draft is still next week.


Edmonton continually drafted high, but they never did anything through their rebuild until recently because they had a terrible draft record outside their lottery picks. They were never able to build a decent team. Calgary is already doing that, with some kids already difference makers (Zary, Pospisil), some players already getting a good dose of experience (Pelletier, Coronato, Solovyov, Pachal, Miromanov, Bahl (in NJ), Okhotyiuk, Wolf, Vladar), and a few more who got a bit of a look last year and whom I bet we will see more of this upcoming season (Kuznetsov, Klapka). Obviously there will be a lot of these kids that won't make it, and if they do, won't be staying long as they won't move the needle enough. However, there is a great base to work-off of. Given how well the Flames have drafted in the recent past, with the same scouts still around and the GM being a functioning member of that staff throughout his tenure in Calgary, I see no reason why we can't expect to churn out more NHL'ers. What is nice to see as well is that there is a lot of size and even toughness in the pool as well.



Conroy now has the relative luxury of being able to 'gamble' a bit more. I still imagine that the list will be drawn up the same way, but now the Flames can probably feel a little more comfortable in taking some 'high risk' players with high ceilings but low floors. Flames won't do this throughout the draft, but I bet they do this a little more. The goal right now is to find high-end difference makers at every position. Find the best players possible. Flames already have a nice collection of support players, they just need to get out of this draft with high-end players. Yes, easier said than done, and of course that should be the focus with every draft. They also have a decent contingent of vets to keep the culture going - Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau (he works hard), Kadri (though I suspect he will be traded), Andersson (I think he will get traded), Kylington (I expect him to be-resigned) and Weegar.



Some teams have trouble doing it. Vancouver had trouble with depth players to surround and insulate guys like Pettersen, Boeser and Hughes. Edmonton had trouble doing that for the last 20 years until recently when they hit on guys like Bouchard, yet they still had to trade for a lot of their depth rather than develop them themselves. Calgary just needs to focus on one thing - high end core pieces.


I am not saying it is easier, but at least there is a better focus on what needs to be accomplished. Lots of ammo spread over the next 3 drafts (and counting - I expect more trades to happen for futures from now until the deadline). This is undoubtedly a rebuild, and a fairly deep one at that given how many pieces have moved. Just take a look and compare the work that Conroy has done relative to other GMs that have 'torn it down' in a scorched-earth rebuild, and I believe Conroy has traded away more players than most of them.


The Flames just happened to be a very deep team top to bottom. Their prospect pool mirrors them very well actually - deep, but no real stars or high-end difference makers. Time to draft those, and turn this team around 2-3 years from now. This is still not a 'scorched earth' because Calgary is so deep, but this is undoubtedly a proper rebuild, and I love to see it. This will take a few years, but I have absolute faith that the Flames come out of this looking very good.
I think you are right on your assessment, and I do believe will likely get 1 top line player out of what we have and maybe a top end PP dmen as well.

The best rebuilds usually have a lot of this type of depth 1st, then they get the franchise guys next. Reason for this is the depth guys often don't play well in the 18-21 age range and need time to develop where the elite star players most time play well at 18-19 and usually take off when they hit 20.

With this pool of players, most won't be ready to win enough games so if Conroy sticks to the plan, we should be a bottom team for 2 years and then if some of these guys develop well, if we can add 2 stars we might be done at the very bottom.

We also have 2 potential unprotected 1sts from other teams. Always hope that we get very lucky.

I also think after this trade deadline, we are going to have more 1sts from other teams. Our best prospects haven't even been drafted yet it feels like this group is loaded with depth already. This is the best situation I've seen this franchise in maybe ever.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:15 PM   #5951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe View Post
I think for anyone that was wavering, I would say that the Markstrom trade essentially erases any doubt of what the Flames are in - a rebuild.


To kickstart this rebuild, they have a lot of draft ammo, plus they have a high number of legitimately good prospects already. This team is deep going into this rebuild. What does this mean? Let's see who figures this out:


Defencemen (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Miromanov (He isn't young... but not old. I'll plop him here)

Pachal

Poirier
Brzustewicz
Jurmo
Grushnikov
Kuznetstov
Solovyov
Morin
Hurtig
Bahl
Okhotyiuk (own his rights anyway)
Boltman (Rights expire Aug 15, but doubt he is signed).
Lerby (2025)
Rafikov (c'mon man, just come to one camp - you have Russian friends now!)


What does everyone see with this group? I think you have guys with ceilings of #2 defencemen: Poirier, Brzustewicz and Morin. I like Morin out of the group the best, but I doubt there is a real #1 guy here. I would say it is more likely these 3 will be 3/4 defencemen. Then the next group have ceilings of 3/4, with some ending up as very good 5/6 defencemen. There is a lot of depth here, and a lot of defencemen that are tracking well given their ages. I am not worried about the Flames not having enough depth on defence coming out of this rebuild. What they need is #1/2 defencemen.



Forwards (ignoring established vets, and in no particular order):
Zary
Pospisil
Coronato
Pelletier (RFA - obvious re-sign)

Honzek
Stromgren
Morton
Bell
Kerins
Nikolayev
Ciona
Damiani (RFA - I think the Flames cut bait here)
Klapka (RFA obvious re-sign)
Schwindt (RFA - probably re-sign)
Ben Jones (UFA - not sure if re-signed)

Suniev
Lipinski
Littler


I might have missed some (or included some that the Flames did not retain). Either way, what is the breakdown with forwards? Again, lots of support players. There is the potential here that a couple of players step-up and become top-line players, but in my opinion, this is a very deep group that tops-out at 2nd line players. Some centres, playmakers, scorers, size and grit - this is a fairly deep group, especially given that the Flames have spent a lot of picks under Treliving.



Goalies - I am including Vladar as he is still young enough, but in no particular order:
Vladar
Wolf
Ignatjew
Yegorov
Sergeev
Chechelev


I would argue that this is the only position organizationally that the Flames shouldn't be concerned with, though I do think that they draft a goalie this year. The standouts to me are Wolf and Sergeev. I argue Vladar is an unknown quantity due to his injury and utilization since coming here. Ignatjew seems like a good add on paper, but no idea other than stats when it comes to him (and those are good). Chechelev looked promising, but has faltered, but perhaps he finds his groove again. Yegorov was just drafted and seems to have had a good season. I would be very shocked if there isn't a starter here. I actually think there is a starter/tandem here. Still, better to draft a few more than scramble down the road trying to draft and trade for established vets who wasted a a few years' of the core (Elliott, Smith, etc).


What this organization needs to do is find top pairing elite defencemen and top-line elite forwards. This prospect pool will probably be rated above average right now. That's a very, very good spot to be in as the draft is still next week.


Edmonton continually drafted high, but they never did anything through their rebuild until recently because they had a terrible draft record outside their lottery picks. They were never able to build a decent team. Calgary is already doing that, with some kids already difference makers (Zary, Pospisil), some players already getting a good dose of experience (Pelletier, Coronato, Solovyov, Pachal, Miromanov, Bahl (in NJ), Okhotyiuk, Wolf, Vladar), and a few more who got a bit of a look last year and whom I bet we will see more of this upcoming season (Kuznetsov, Klapka). Obviously there will be a lot of these kids that won't make it, and if they do, won't be staying long as they won't move the needle enough. However, there is a great base to work-off of. Given how well the Flames have drafted in the recent past, with the same scouts still around and the GM being a functioning member of that staff throughout his tenure in Calgary, I see no reason why we can't expect to churn out more NHL'ers. What is nice to see as well is that there is a lot of size and even toughness in the pool as well.



Conroy now has the relative luxury of being able to 'gamble' a bit more. I still imagine that the list will be drawn up the same way, but now the Flames can probably feel a little more comfortable in taking some 'high risk' players with high ceilings but low floors. Flames won't do this throughout the draft, but I bet they do this a little more. The goal right now is to find high-end difference makers at every position. Find the best players possible. Flames already have a nice collection of support players, they just need to get out of this draft with high-end players. Yes, easier said than done, and of course that should be the focus with every draft. They also have a decent contingent of vets to keep the culture going - Backlund, Coleman, Huberdeau (he works hard), Kadri (though I suspect he will be traded), Andersson (I think he will get traded), Kylington (I expect him to be-resigned) and Weegar.



Some teams have trouble doing it. Vancouver had trouble with depth players to surround and insulate guys like Pettersen, Boeser and Hughes. Edmonton had trouble doing that for the last 20 years until recently when they hit on guys like Bouchard, yet they still had to trade for a lot of their depth rather than develop them themselves. Calgary just needs to focus on one thing - high end core pieces.


I am not saying it is easier, but at least there is a better focus on what needs to be accomplished. Lots of ammo spread over the next 3 drafts (and counting - I expect more trades to happen for futures from now until the deadline). This is undoubtedly a rebuild, and a fairly deep one at that given how many pieces have moved. Just take a look and compare the work that Conroy has done relative to other GMs that have 'torn it down' in a scorched-earth rebuild, and I believe Conroy has traded away more players than most of them.


The Flames just happened to be a very deep team top to bottom. Their prospect pool mirrors them very well actually - deep, but no real stars or high-end difference makers. Time to draft those, and turn this team around 2-3 years from now. This is still not a 'scorched earth' because Calgary is so deep, but this is undoubtedly a proper rebuild, and I love to see it. This will take a few years, but I have absolute faith that the Flames come out of this looking very good.
Appreciate this. That's a really level-headed assessment of where things are at, which is a nice change of pace to be honest. I think you're right, we have an abundance of great supporting pieces having been drafted/acquired, who generally take longer to develop. Which is encouraging because your high end pieces generally hit faster because, well, they're high-end talents.

I know everybody wants to trade away all the vets, but I actually always find it interesting to see which players "endure" rebuilds - even those who were being heavily rumored to be traded during their rebuilds - but end up being important parts of their teams on the other side when they become competitive again, either from a mentorship or a production standpoint. I feel like guys like Weegar, Kadri, Coleman and Hunerdeau could be great candidates for that if everything breaks the right way. Not saying we shouldn't necessarily.trade some of those guys if the right deals come along or if they want out, but there is definitely value to having the best through the retool and even on the other side.

This combination of strategy and circumstance actually bodes fairly well for a potential 2-3 year re-(whatever).

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Old 06-21-2024, 01:16 PM   #5952
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I think you are right on your assessment, and I do believe will likely get 1 top line player out of what we have and maybe a top end PP dmen as well.



The best rebuilds usually have a lot of this type of depth 1st, then they get the franchise guys next. Reason for this is the depth guys often don't play well in the 18-21 age range and need time to develop where the elite star players most time play well at 18-19 and usually take off when they hit 20.



With this pool of players, most won't be ready to win enough games so if Conroy sticks to the plan, we should be a bottom team for 2 years and then if some of these guys develop well, if we can add 2 stars we might be done at the very bottom.



We also have 2 potential unprotected 1sts from other teams. Always hope that we get very lucky.



I also think after this trade deadline, we are going to have more 1sts from other teams. Our best prospects haven't even been drafted yet it feels like this group is loaded with depth already. This is the best situation I've seen this franchise in maybe ever.
Beat me to it!
Well said.

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Old 06-21-2024, 01:18 PM   #5953
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I haven't heard anything about Monahan back in Calgary.
More likely he rejoins his bestie in Columbus as the worst kept secret is Lindholm going to Boston.

Cant see Calgary bring back Gio until he's ready to retire.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:26 PM   #5954
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Wasn’t there a rumor of Brodie back to the Flames a few weeks ago, despite the fact that he wanted to play out East to be closer to his wife’s family?
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:28 PM   #5955
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Debrusk is also linked to the Leafs. I think that makes more sense.
That would be such a Leafs move.

No defenceman but let's sign another forward.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:33 PM   #5956
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Doesn't Gio just want to play in Toronto? Don't see the fit anyway.
If he wants to keep playing, I doubt there's a spot for him in Toronto. I just can't see him having anything left in the tank.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him re-sign with the Flames, but only on a one day retirement contract.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:43 PM   #5957
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Spoiler!
I couldn't agree more with both your analysis and draft philosophy. The Flames have close to all the youthful depth they need in their system, they should be swinging for the fences in the later rounds; like the 3rd and later. Maybe even the 2nd.
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Old 06-21-2024, 01:51 PM   #5958
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Great write-up as usual, Calgary4Life! You should be a published writer!
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Old 06-21-2024, 02:30 PM   #5959
albertGQ
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Awesome summary.

But I see a lot of "meh"

Wolf, Zary and Corronato are obviously the best. But besides Wolf, no real blue chippers

Our best prospects are not in the organization yet. Its our six 1st rounders in the next 3 drafts and hopefully a couple of the 2nd rounders as well
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Old 06-21-2024, 03:03 PM   #5960
Macho0978
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertGQ View Post
Awesome summary.

But I see a lot of "meh"

Wolf, Zary and Corronato are obviously the best. But besides Wolf, no real blue chippers

Our best prospects are not in the organization yet. Its our six 1st rounders in the next 3 drafts and hopefully a couple of the 2nd rounders as well
I do agree but Zary was "meh" going into last year. With this many prospects we should get another pleasant surprise.

Pospsil was also almost off everyone's radar, and he looks like a keeper now.
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