[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames, Devils reignite Markstrom trade talks (again); other teams interested

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

yet, when the Flames could get “now” pieces, they made sure they did. Including Kuzmenko in the Lindholm trade and not flipping him negatively impacted the Flames draft position, as did not trading Markstrom, as did keeping Noah as long as they did and trying to sign him right up until the week before they were forced to trade him.
.

Kuzmenko had to be included in the trade for cap. They were taking back salary either way. Miromanov is barely a roster player, he could easily be out of the league in a year and they still needed some bodies.

Sharangovich was the only clear 'now' piece and that happened before the season even started.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I agree.

I think they were happy to talk contract with all of the players, as you suggest.

But part of the reason deals didn't get done is because they set parameters for said contracts and then didn't budge.

Toffoli term.
Tanev term.
Zadorov lack of interest?

It wasn't a "please sign here at any cost" proposition leaving them jilted at every turn.

The only overpay that looked to be happening was Lindholm from what I could put together.

Wanting Tanev back but not budging on say two years max isn't being jilted. It's making an asset decision.

I don't really see why it matters either, most teams that rebuild did not just decide to sell everyone on a 90+ point team. Usually, it happens because things did not go as planned.

Edmonton - got Leon and McDavid after self-proclaiming they were going to be a dynasty after having the trio of Nuge, Eberle and Hall. They made additions along the way too, just bad ones

Florida - Got Huberdeau and Gudbranson high, then had a 90+ point season and made the playoffs. Crashed back down to earth to get Barkov and Ekblad

Arizona had money issues

SJ tried to keep together a veteran team and signed them all to very long bad contracts

Detroit respected Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom too much they just let them retire as wings

Colorado had sustained success and then crashed down the standings. Also seemed to have less money once the dynasty ended.

Why does it matter, the Flames are here already. This team is a bottom team right now and we are trading our goalie and really didn't need to do a deal now. Markstrom and Wolf could easily split time for a while before moving on from Markstrom

If we trade Markstrom and retain salary for 2 years to get a top 10 pick, then that is a sign this team is doing it the right way

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think any offers to extend these players is a troubling sign though. It demonstrates a willingness to be a middle of the road team, or a lack of self awareness of what they were.

If there is any team in the league who has a lack of awareness of what they are, year after year... it is the Calgary Flames.

Just this year we heard how ownership thought we could go on a magical run and make the playoffs, after trading away 2 of our best dmen and our top center.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Including Kuzmenko in the Lindholm trade and not flipping him negatively impacted the Flames draft position, as did not trading Markstrom, as did keeping Noah as long as they did and trying to sign him right up until the week before they were forced to trade him.

I think dismissing fan angst over the fact that the organization is doing everything possible to not rebuild through the top of the draft isn’t fair. Everything they do is in an attempt to not let a “losing culture” take hold, even though they own one of the strongest losing cultures in the league. Conroy has talked about this desire to not build a “losing culture” fairly openly, and that’s concerning because to me that’s not correctly assessing the current state.

The Flames may stop doing stupid stuff (like letting free agents walk), but that’s still a far way away from doing things well enough to establish any sort of “winning culture”.

If Friedman is right, and I have zero reason to think he’s wrong, then the Flames are continuing to operate with a similar philosophy to years gone by…and that’s just sad.

I hope Markstrom is gone within the next 16 days, and I really hope the return is based around futures.

At the time of the trade, Kuz could not have been flipped for assets, if he could have, the Canucks would have done so. The Flames got additional value for taking him.

Now, he likley could be fliiped for value, but not then.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Not sure I agree.

I think they were happy to talk contract with all of the players, as you suggest.

But part of the reason deals didn't get done is because they set parameters for said contracts and then didn't budge.

Toffoli term.
Tanev term.
Zadorov lack of interest?

It wasn't a "please sign here at any cost" proposition leaving them jilted at every turn.

The only overpay that looked to be happening was Lindholm from what I could put together.

Wanting Tanev back but not budging on say two years max isn't being jilted. It's making an asset decision.

I keep pointing this out but the same group of posters just ignore it.

Yes the Flames "tried" to sign these UFA's

....to deals that were palatable for the FLAMES

It was a scenario where they would have either had a good player on a decent contract or an expiring asset to trade for futures.

In all cases they ended up trading the player for futures after holding firm on contract offers the player wouldn't accept.

[Vinny01]

I am fascinated by what the Flames are going to do over the next 4-6 weeks. While the goal to get younger is clear I am not convinced every move is going to be about 2026-2027 and they may make moves to try and be better next year. With that said it should be a goal to pick in the top 10 due to the conditions of the Monahan trade.

Moving Markstrom makes a ton of sense as he is 34, has solid trade value, and seemingly is looking for a change.

The moves Conroy made last year make sense if you are on team tank or on team compete. You already have many players on this roster with term being 30+ in Huberdeau, Weegar, Kadri, Coleman, Backlund. They were prepared to do it with Lindholm and Hanifin (would have been 34 when his 8 year deal expired) but that was about it as Toffoli, Zadorov, Tanev were not offered 5+ year deals. When you move pending UFA’s the return is almost always futures based.

We know Conroy is not going to chase 30+ guys via trade or free agency and give a huge contract or pay big assets. I wouldn’t be surprised though if he was chasing a Laine, Zegras, Necas or any other low-mid 20’s player up front on on the blueline that can make an impact immediately. I think the quest to find someone to play with Huberdeau remains and there are likely people in the org who think if they can unlock Huby they can compete.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I keep pointing this out but the same group of posters just ignore it.

Yes the Flames "tried" to sign these UFA's

....to deals that were palatable for the FLAMES

It was a scenario where they would have either had a good player on a decent contract or an expiring asset to trade for futures.

In all cases they ended up trading the player for futures after holding firm on contract offers the player wouldn't accept.

Sounds like a plan to me. What can we pay our players and leave us room to improve as this team is not good enough as is. Probably can't offer what the player wants.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I keep pointing this out but the same group of posters just ignore it.

Yes the Flames "tried" to sign these UFA's

....to deals that were palatable for the FLAMES

It was a scenario where they would have either had a good player on a decent contract or an expiring asset to trade for futures.

In all cases they ended up trading the player for futures after holding firm on contract offers the player wouldn't accept.

The only one that made me nervous was Lindholm. He looked super checked out here but thankfully his demands were so high that it never really got that far. I still would have been fine if they re-signed Hanifin and then had the option of flipping Weegar or Andersson. We will know a lot more about the direction by the draft/free agency.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am fascinated by what the Flames are going to do over the next 4-6 weeks. While the goal to get younger is clear I am not convinced every move is going to be about 2026-2027 and they may make moves to try and be better next year. With that said it should be a goal to pick in the top 10 due to the conditions of the Monahan trade.

Moving Markstrom makes a ton of sense as he is 34, has solid trade value, and seemingly is looking for a change.

The moves Conroy made last year make sense if you are on team tank or on team compete. You already have many players on this roster with term being 30+ in Huberdeau, Weegar, Kadri, Coleman, Backlund. They were prepared to do it with Lindholm and Hanifin (would have been 34 when his 8 year deal expired) but that was about it as Toffoli, Zadorov, Tanev were not offered 5+ year deals. When you move pending UFA’s the return is almost always futures based.

We know Conroy is not going to chase 30+ guys via trade or free agency and give a huge contract or pay big assets. I wouldn’t be surprised though if he was chasing a Laine, Zegras, Necas or any other low-mid 20’s player up front on on the blueline that can make an impact immediately. I think the quest to find someone to play with Huberdeau remains and there are likely people in the org who think if they can unlock Huby they can compete.

Flames were 8-13 after the trade deadline. The first game after the deadline they beat Tampa, they shortly after that they beat Vegas. Other than that, they were very bad losing a ton of games. But the season was winding down, they then won a few games against SJ, ARZ, Sharks x 2, Montreal, Ducks.

The Flames were 8-13 we a very easy schedule after the deadline. They are a bottom team and are trading Markstrom.

Even if the look at buy low guys like Laine and Zegras or guys like Necas who they think might pop, as long as the deal has players going back it does not risk this team trying to win now and that they are not embracing a rebuild.

Guys like Weegar, Rasmus, Coleman, Backlund all want to stay, but the Flames had 81 points. If that turns to 65-70, some are going to want out. Most years you don't need to be 55-60 points to be bottom 3 and most teams that rebuild have ups and downs in the standings. No team ever finished with 50-55 points 5 straight years. Some years you get 55 next year it's 65. I really can't wait til the next move, way too much panic around here.

[Ba'alzamon]

Something that's occurred to me once or twice in the last little while... and if you knew me you'd maybe be surprised by this, because I never have anything positive to say about Lou Lamoriello... but I wonder if we have him to thank, at least in part, for the (seemingly) increased value placed on goalies?

The Islanders have been sitting on Varlamov and Sorokin for a while now, and you have to think Lamoriello has received calls about one or the other. Obviously the asking price (if there even is one) hasn't been met, or they would have made a trade. And you have to think that a team sitting on a Saros or Ullmark is going to want at least as much for those guys as the Islanders want for Varlamov.

Just something that's crossed my gray matter.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Kuzmenko had to be included in the trade for cap. They were taking back salary either way. Miromanov is barely a roster player, he could easily be out of the league in a year and they still needed some bodies.

Sharangovich was the only clear 'now' piece and that happened before the season even started.

I'd even suggest with Sharangovich, they targetted him as a now and as a longer term piece who would hopefully replace a little bit of Toffoli's scoring last year and maybe get better over the next few years as a longer term Flame.

He turned out better than expected almost right away, which has made the two year deal they signed with him the only problem with that trade -- as it might force the Flames to trade him this year if he feels he's too good to stick through the rewhatever.

Frankly, the two year deal was odd when it was signed. They probably should have pushed for four years at $4m a year, if they felt he was good enough to sign for 2 years for $3m a year when they acquired him.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Frankly, the two year deal was odd when it was signed. They probably should have pushed for four years at $4m a year, if they felt he was good enough to sign for 2 years for $3m a year when they acquired him.

That was all on the agent betting the cap would go up in two years. Barring an awful season from Sharangovich it looks like it was great advice. I am guessing his ask on a four year deal was unpalatable

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think any offers to extend these players is a troubling sign though. It demonstrates a willingness to be a middle of the road team, or a lack of self awareness of what they were.

Not to me.

Every player has value. Moving him has value.

You need to assess them individually.

Keeping Tyler Toffoli is fine on a two year deal. Keeping him at all costs (6 years or so) isn't.

They moved him.

Tanev reportedly wanted to stay but the Flames liked two years and not four.

They moved him.

Every asset decision should be made individually.

I'm with you, I'm glad they moved players for futures, but I don't think they wanted everyone back desperately and were shunned and got a better plan B by accident.

That's an over statement in my mind.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

I'd even suggest with Sharangovich, they targetted him as a now and as a longer term piece who would hopefully replace a little bit of Toffoli's scoring last year and maybe get better over the next few years as a longer term Flame.

He turned out better than expected almost right away, which has made the two year deal they signed with him the only problem with that trade -- as it might force the Flames to trade him this year if he feels he's too good to stick through the rewhatever.

Frankly, the two year deal was odd when it was signed. They probably should have pushed for four years at $4m a year, if they felt he was good enough to sign for 2 years for $3m a year when they acquired him.

That's easy to say now, they should have signed him longer. If he wants to stay, they will resign him, and I don't see 1 year later, him demanding huge money. It could work out better than him playing 2 or 3 years of good hockey and wanted way more.

After last year, really what could he command on his next contract?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

If there is any team in the league who has a lack of awareness of what they are, year after year... it is the Calgary Flames.

Just this year we heard how ownership thought we could go on a magical run and make the playoffs, after trading away 2 of our best dmen and our top center.

Why are you lapping that stuff up?

It's clearly something you say in place of "we're screwed, we can't compete now, may as well just mail it in ... "

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bonded

That was all on the agent betting the cap would go up in two years. Barring an awful season from Sharangovich it looks like it was great advice. I am guessing his ask on a four year deal was unpalatable

Probably, but they held so much leverage on him and signed him so quickly. He was an RFA that had been benched a bunch on his previous team (which was one of the big criticisms of the Flames when they traded for him).

I guess he held a little leverage on the Flames as "the return" for their top goal scorer, but still, it seemed like they could have spent more time to get a longer term deal done. I won't belabour this anymore as the point is more that he was a now and future piece and this thread is on Markstrom rumours.

[PepsiFree]

People seem to either forget, ignore, or genuinely don’t understand that signing players is asset management, too. If you can get a player under contract for a reasonable, team friendly deal then they remain an asset you can move going forward without the time constraints of an expiring deal.

Not even offering contracts to any of the UFAs (specifically when you have room) in an attempt to see if you can extend your window with that asset is just bad management.

[GioforPM]

Sharangovich on a 2 year deal during the rebuild keeps everyone's options open - it's not a bad call. They can extend him, or use him at the TDL as an attractive pickup for a contender.

[Vinny01]

Edit: NM i am not looking to get into supporting a quick retool when I want a rebuild anyway

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Edit: NM i am not looking to get into supporting a quick retool when I want a rebuild anyway

Get Pospisil out yo damn mouth