[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames, Devils reignite Markstrom trade talks (again); other teams interested

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Kings are looking for a goalie. Any interest in Brandt Clarke?

I doubt he is moved. He is treated like the heir to Doughty.

[getbak]

New from Friedman this morning...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1799825409787490522

• Calgary and New Jersey are talking.
• The Flames are trying to keep things quiet until it gets done.
• Toronto and Ottawa may also be interested.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by BigThief

10th overall pick for the Devils doesn't move the needle for a young team on the cusp like the Devils, a number one goalie does. Luke Hughes 20, Simon Nemec 20, Dawson Mercer 21, Alex Holtz, 21, Jack Hughes 22, Nico Hishier 24, Jesper Bratt 25, Timo Meier 26...that's an incredibly young core and a good GM doesn't want to waste it on bottom feeding and second chance goalies.

I think this is the kind of thinking that makes teams try to accelerate their rebuild and hurt themselves in the long run. Players are making bigger and bigger impacts at young ages. Like you said, Jack Hughes is only 22 and Hischier is 24 and they are already the main stars on that team. In 4 years, when that 10OA pick is 22, Jack would only be 26 and Hischier 28 (ie. In the prime of their careers). Markstrom would be retired or in the tail end of his career. NJ has way more runway on their competitive window than you are suggesting here.

If I were NJ, I'd keep that 10OA, just like I'd want the Flames to keep it if we were in the same situation. NJ may be desperate and make the mistake of trading that pick for Markstrom, but it would be a mistake all the same. I can only hope that NJ is truly desperate. The question then becomes, how desperate are they really and how much more do we have to give up to entice them into making that mistake.

I see people throwing out 10OA and Holtz for Markstrom retained and justifying retention has having significant value. I see the models saying how much retention is worth. At the end of the day, I just don't see NJ, or any team, desperate enough to say yes, I'm willing to give up the value based on all of these models to get Markstrom.

The Flames may be the ones sticking to the models, and NJ are the ones not willing to meet the price. That's why no deal is done.

My guess is, if we do want the 10OA, we'd have to give something back and meet NJ in the middle. Something like Markstrom + Pospisil + 2nd for 10OA + Allen + something small?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

His years here have been:

.904
.922
.892
.905

If we get a 10th Overall pick back in a deal where Markstrom is the prime piece? What an absolute win for the Flames.

100% . Heck I view any 1st in a deal would be a steal with how he played in 22/23 and the second half of last year

Basically 3 out of the last 4 “halves” of seasons he’s been not great

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by getbak

New from Friedman this morning...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1799825409787490522

• Calgary and New Jersey are talking.
• The Flames are trying to keep things quiet until it gets done.
• Toronto and Ottawa may also be interested.

I doubt Markstrom waives to go to Ottawa. Don’t know what deals look like with the Leafs or Sens,

To Leafs
Markstrom (50% retained)

To Flames
2024 1st
Cowan


To Senators
Markstrom

To Flames
Pinto
Korpisalo
Boston 2024 1st

[Major Major]

Do an unprotected 2026 draft pick with tre.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

I doubt Markstrom waives to go to Ottawa. Don’t know what deals look like with the Leafs or Sens,

To Leafs
Markstrom (50% retained)

To Flames
2024 1st
Cowan


To Senators
Markstrom

To Flames
Pinto
Korpisalo
Boston 2024 1st

I doubt you would get both a 1st and Cowan after the season he had. I imagine Cowan is off the table.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Did they? I thought devils never put mercer in the deal. Could be wrong.

I personally don’t see Markstrom bringing back 10 overall on his own. Even with retention.

I’m going to say it’s something like this:

Markstrom and 28th pick for

10 oa , Jake Allan, and a 3rd/4th round pick.

My understanding was the Flames went to Markstrom about waiving when NJ said they’d include Mercer w/retention, and then Fitzgerald pulled a fast one.

I could be wrong.

In any event, Mercer helps the Devils more than a 10th overall pick will.

The Devils don’t really need defense, as has been pointed out, and they don’t need more forwards, especially if they’re keeping Mercer.

They do need a reliable veteran goalie.

So I agree with your trade, probably seems enough to get it done. Tinker on the edges as necessary.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Major Major

Do an unprotected 2026 draft pick with tre.

They'll have mcdavid that season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

His years here have been:

.904
.922
.892
.905

If we get a 10th Overall pick back in a deal where Markstrom is the prime piece? What an absolute win for the Flames.

Go have a look at better stats than save%. And remember than a 3rd of his last season was a tank job.

[BigThief]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I think this is the kind of thinking that makes teams try to accelerate their rebuild and hurt themselves in the long run. Players are making bigger and bigger impacts at young ages. Like you said, Jack Hughes is only 22 and Hischier is 24 and they are already the main stars on that team. In 4 years, when that 10OA pick is 22, Jack would only be 26 and Hischier 28 (ie. In the prime of their careers). Markstrom would be retired or in the tail end of his career. NJ has way more runway on their competitive window than you are suggesting here.

If I were NJ, I'd keep that 10OA, just like I'd want the Flames to keep it if we were in the same situation. NJ may be desperate and make the mistake of trading that pick for Markstrom, but it would be a mistake all the same. I can only hope that NJ is truly desperate. The question then becomes, how desperate are they really and how much more do we have to give up to entice them into making that mistake.

I see people throwing out 10OA and Holtz for Markstrom retained and justifying retention has having significant value. I see the models saying how much retention is worth. At the end of the day, I just don't see NJ, or any team, desperate enough to say yes, I'm willing to give up the value based on all of these models to get Markstrom.

The Flames may be the ones sticking to the models, and NJ are the ones not willing to meet the price. That's why no deal is done.

My guess is, if we do want the 10OA, we'd have to give something back and meet NJ in the middle. Something like Markstrom + Pospisil + 2nd for 10OA + Allen + something small?

There is a time in a rebuild when you must decide we've accumulated franchise players and talent now we must build a winner. The Devils drafted Nico Hischier first overall seven years ago. If they think the big piece, a goalie, isn't going to come up through the system quick they can now use draft picks to get that final piece.

You can't rebuild forever.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think the far more likely outcome here is the Flames move Markstrom at full freight for NJ's protected 2025 1st + Allen + a lower-tier add-on (think Clarke/Bahl/Filmon).

That way, you have multiple firsts in each of the next three drafts.

I think this is the way forward as well. Calgary receives a first, but probably in the twenties rather than 10 OA. Fair deal.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think the far more likely outcome here is the Flames move Markstrom at full freight for NJ's protected 2025 1st + Allen + a lower-tier add-on (think Clarke/Bahl/Filmon).

That way, you have multiple firsts in each of the next three drafts.

This is how I see it too.

I would love to get the 10th oa, but this path seems far more likely.

It would still be a nice package.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Go have a look at better stats than save%. And remember than a 3rd of his last season was a tank job.

I'd suggest go looking at the last time a goalie was traded for a top-10 pick.

If Conroy can snag that 10th overall it's a pretty significant win for him. I only see 10th OA being in play if there is 50% retention, or if there's a pick going back of note to NJD in the deal.

A 34 year old goalie just hasn't returned something as high value as a 10th overall pick in the modern NHL era. I'm not saying it won't happen, but that if it does - it's extremely good work by Conroy.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd suggest go looking at the last time a goalie was traded for a top-10 pick.

If Conroy can snag that 10th overall it's a pretty significant win for him. I only see 10th OA being in play if there is 50% retention, or if there's a pick going back of note to NJD in the deal.

A 34 year old goalie just hasn't returned something as high value as a 10th overall pick in the modern NHL era. I'm not saying it won't happen, but that if it does - it's extremely good work by Conroy.

Probably because legit starting goalies rarely get moved. Why would you do that?

The Flames current situation is entirely unique. They had two core young superstars walk in the same year. They had built a roster up around them, from coach to all positions, through free agency, trades, and drafting, for cup runs. They ended up in a forced “blow it all up” position. When has that happened before?

So many former Flame pieces played well in these playoffs for different teams.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd suggest go looking at the last time a goalie was traded for a top-10 pick.

If Conroy can snag that 10th overall it's a pretty significant win for him. I only see 10th OA being in play if there is 50% retention, or if there's a pick going back of note to NJD in the deal.

A 34 year old goalie just hasn't returned something as high value as a 10th overall pick in the modern NHL era. I'm not saying it won't happen, but that if it does - it's extremely good work by Conroy.

I already did.

The age is the only difference between Schneider and Markstrom (term, salary, etc are equivalent), and Markstrom has a superior track record. Retention isn't a big deal either, the Flames can and would do it. A pick doesn't have to go back, something else could if necessary.

Go look at GSAA for Markstrom in the lague and you will see why he is being looked at.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I already did.

The age is the only difference between Schneider and Markstrom (term, salary, etc are equivalent), and Markstrom has a superior track record. Retention isn't a big deal either, the Flames can and would do it. A pick doesn't have to go back, something else could if necessary.

Go look at GSAA for Markstrom in the lague and you will see why he is being looked at.

Age is a huge difference that can’t be waved away.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Age is a huge difference that can’t be waved away.

His age is perfect for them. They need a playoff run, he’s a vet who is ready to compete. Their only real positional hole. Opportunities like that don’t pop up all the time.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

His age is perfect for them. They need a playoff run, he’s a vet who is ready to compete. Their only real positional hole. Opportunities like that don’t pop up all the time.

Yeah, he makes sense for New Jersey but the Schneider comparable doesn’t hold up. Fleury is a lot closer.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, he makes sense for New Jersey but the Schneider comparable doesn’t hold up. Fleury is a lot closer.

He was a UFA…