How is everyone dealing with their finances in this economy?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Weitz

That may work for education and in your daughters specific case but I wouldn’t call it a sound strategy for kids who want to keep options open. You can’t apply to probably any science faculty with -2 math (just looked at a few on the U of A site).

BTW, you have to be kidding yourself if you think you're closing doors by not taking certain courses in high school. Once you're in university a quick meeting with the faculty will get you anywhere you need to be. Nobody is going to turn away a stellar university student from certain courses they could easily do because they don't have a pre-requisite from when they were a high school kid. Once you're in university you can fling around anywhere you want.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

As someone expecting their first child in the next few weeks this has been a fascinating and enjoyable read (and somewhat stressful!). Thanks all

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ah, ok, that's fine. I seem to remember it being Math 30, and 31 was the advanced one. But you could also take something like Math 24(?) which was for dummies, but you could still graduate. So ya, as long as you do the 30 level stuff, that's enough. Doing the higher level can give you a shortcut if you know you are going to need it in Uni though. But that's less of a big deal.

Math 30 is the grade 12 math, and there are a few different streams (30-1, 30-2, 30-3 in order of academic difficulty). Math 31 is calculus, which will be a pre-requisite for some degrees (mathematics, engineering, etc) but isn't that different from calculus 1 in university.

[woob]

I'm knocking on the big 5 0 soon and have a 5 and a 7 year old. Some days I literally question my sanity. And then my 5 year old asks us a "when did the first first life start?" and I can't help but laugh, go wtf, and realize how much it rocks being a dad. It's super hard but super rewarding.

[Russic]

It's all such an interesting conundrum. Everybody tries to plan for a future that probably won't unfold as expected... the future is obnoxious that way.

I have a buddy who did precisely what Sliver is suggesting, decided he wanted to be a paramedic, found the most logical (and simplest) path, and crushed it. Was making $100,000 within a decade, and will retire at 50 with a full pension. He's also 100% traumatized and spends most of his time imagining a life where he did literally anything else.

Important to note: I am not saying Sliver's suggestion is at all wrong, just that we can only plan to a certain degree before life steps in and plays its role.

Another vote for Sliver's method, another guy I know did weak math through high school, realized at 24 what he wanted to do and had to upgrade everything. His experience was that difficult math at 24 is very different from difficult math at 17. The brain (well, his at least) is a much different computer at 24 and he found it almost simple. My wife is a teacher and one of her biggest struggles is convincing parents and students that high school grades aren't the end of the road.

Taking things back to financial chatter, the teacher example is interesting. I partially blame social media, but a lot of the new teachers coming up don't see it as the gift Sliver does. The idea of going from $65,000 --> $100,000 in a decade is seen by many as not good enough. I've spoken to a lot of managers hiring for junior roles across various industries that report many young people arrive in the workforce looking for $100,000 off the hop (I fully admit this is anecdotal).

To give an example, at my wife's school they just hired a new teacher. The reason she got the job? Of the 8 candidates, she's the only one that showed up to the interview. Not one of the 7 sent an email or made a phone call to cancel. They just didn't show up.

Not trying to turn this into a "kids these days" post... perhaps things have gotten to the point where $65,000 entry jobs aren't enough for many people.

[Monahammer]

I have a 5 and 3 year old at 32. Can't imagine having gone through the last 3 years of my life 10 years older. Don't think I would have survived that tbh... Kudos to you older fellows who have done the baby-toddler years in your 40s. Wow. How did you deal with the total sleep deprivation?!!!?


To shift back to the other side of this thread, Howard Ducky, I sympathize with your story greatly and hope you are doing well. I started a business with a colleague 4 years ago. We weren't exactly on equal footing starting out; he had much more wealth than me and was relying on my network and skills to get the business running. We structured the ownership loosley, I had about 40%, which I at the time thought was more than fair as he was giving me a lot of freedom for someone so young, and I was essentially going to get to work my idea with someone else's money. He was also a friend that I had worked with for 4 years.

Well, 2 years in and other financial circumstances have him trying to pull out of our venture at a critical juncture. I had been doing basically all the work with him as a silent partner occasionally weighing in with a directional nudge. I needed capital to complete on a massive sale. He revealed that he had been trying to sell his portion off to a competitor. We had a fight. He reluctantly agreed to put up the money for the deal after i had already approached my supplier contact to see if I could work a deal with him to front more of the cash until the purchaser paid... but the damage was done between us. He forced me out with a small package, and the equity worked out to be pretty low value when he sold the company for scraps.

My wife was also on Mat leave with our second at the time, but her job was not at all executive level... her EI income was almost the same. I was quite panicked- but fortunately with the combined equity and savings was able to live freely for 6 months and be with her and the kids... It started out very stressful as I didn't know what to do, but once I settled down and the panic faded, i realized that it was the best time of my life. I was so unbelievably fortunate to spend that extra time with my kids while they were babies, and was able to support my wife a lot more than otherwise. We are still trying to work back our savings, but I scored a great job I am way happier about 5 months later. Because of that tight bond with the kids built during that 5-6 month window, I feel like I am way more firm about my work/life balance now than I would otherwise have been, and i feel as though it has actually benefited in my current work place. People respect that I am such an active and focused father and are vocal about supporting that.

It is stressful but things will get better. Spend the time with your kids and enjoy it. Don't worry too much about your skills and trust your network as someone else said. That's how i worked into my current role. I am a little gunshy now about thinking entrepreneurially, but I hope that will return over time as the wound heals.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Russic

It's all such an interesting conundrum. Everybody tries to plan for a future that probably won't unfold as expected... the future is obnoxious that way.

I have a buddy who did precisely what Sliver is suggesting, decided he wanted to be a paramedic, found the most logical (and simplest) path, and crushed it. Was making $100,000 within a decade, and will retire at 50 with a full pension. He's also 100% traumatized and spends most of his time imagining a life where he did literally anything else.

Important to note: I am not saying Sliver's suggestion is at all wrong, just that we can only plan to a certain degree before life steps in and plays its role.

Another vote for Sliver's method, another guy I know did weak math through high school, realized at 24 what he wanted to do and had to upgrade everything. His experience was that difficult math at 24 is very different from difficult math at 17. The brain (well, his at least) is a much different computer at 24 and he found it almost simple. My wife is a teacher and one of her biggest struggles is convincing parents and students that high school grades aren't the end of the road.

Taking things back to financial chatter, the teacher example is interesting. I partially blame social media, but a lot of the new teachers coming up don't see it as the gift Sliver does. The idea of going from $65,000 --> $100,000 in a decade is seen by many as not good enough. I've spoken to a lot of managers hiring for junior roles across various industries that report many young people arrive in the workforce looking for $100,000 off the hop (I fully admit this is anecdotal).

To give an example, at my wife's school they just hired a new teacher. The reason she got the job? Of the 8 candidates, she's the only one that showed up to the interview. Not one of the 7 sent an email or made a phone call to cancel. They just didn't show up.

Not trying to turn this into a "kids these days" post... perhaps things have gotten to the point where $65,000 entry jobs aren't enough for many people.

Yeah, my daughter was losing sleep and stressing so much for the first half of high school about grades and ruining her future when she was just 16. That's when I clued in that there has to be a better way. We changed our whole approach and it relieved so much of her stress and anxiety. She went from thinking she'd be digging ditches as a career to being accepted to three universities.

Just get accepted into university and then make your way once you're there. It's all you need to do. The last thing you want to be as a teen is a study-a-holic missing out on all the fun just to get an arbitrary number that absolutely does.not.matter. Do well with your grades such that you get accepted into university, but don't push harder for that extra five or eight percent that takes way too much time and effort to achieve. Dedicate that time to relationships, friendships, relaxing, exercising and just generally being a well-rounded human that is enjoying their fleeting youth.

I went out for beers last night with two other people - both teachers. They couldn't agree more with what I'm saying and I'm heartened to hear your teacher wife feels the same way. My wife is in the corporate world and she helped inform my shift from "get good grades" to "get adequate grades in the easiest courses possible". Reason being is the 99% students absolutely top out in the workforce while people like my wife who are fun, personable and were cool as young people end up being the good leaders who other good leaders want to elevate and be with on trips, in meeting, etc. The studious types end up plateauing and continue to be worker bees while being surpassed by the normies.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, my daughter was losing sleep and stressing so much for the first half of high school about grades and ruining her future when she was just 16. That's when I clued in that there has to be a better way. We changed our whole approach and it relieved so much of her stress and anxiety. She went from thinking she'd be digging ditches as a career to being accepted to three universities.

Just get accepted into university and then make your way once you're there. It's all you need to do. The last thing you want to be as a teen is a study-a-holic missing out on all the fun just to get an arbitrary number that absolutely does.not.matter. Do well with your grades such that you get accepted into university, but don't push harder for that extra five or eight percent that takes way too much time and effort to achieve. Dedicate that time to relationships, friendships, relaxing, exercising and just generally being a well-rounded human that is enjoying their fleeting youth.

I went out for beers last night with two other people - both teachers. They couldn't agree more with what I'm saying and I'm heartened to hear your teacher wife feels the same way. My wife is in the corporate world and she helped inform my shift from "get good grades" to "get adequate grades in the easiest courses possible". Reason being is the 99% students absolutely top out in the workforce while people like my wife who are fun, personable and were cool as young people end up being the good leaders who other good leaders want to elevate and be with on trips, in meeting, etc. The studious types end up plateauing and continue to be worker bees while being surpassed by the normies.

A lot of this is based in being in a high socioeconomic background with the right demographics and networks.

Being fun, cool and personable in a lower socioeconomic group or a person of color doesn't move you up the corporate ladder as consistently as it would for someone like your daughter.

Being studious and disciplined won't reach the same highs as the jocks of the schools, but it will have a much higher floor.

[Weitz]

The last thing I’d be worried about is how I am labeled in high school.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Russic

It's all such an interesting conundrum. Everybody tries to plan for a future that probably won't unfold as expected... the future is obnoxious that way.

I have a buddy who did precisely what Sliver is suggesting, decided he wanted to be a paramedic, found the most logical (and simplest) path, and crushed it. Was making $100,000 within a decade, and will retire at 50 with a full pension. He's also 100% traumatized and spends most of his time imagining a life where he did literally anything else.

Important to note: I am not saying Sliver's suggestion is at all wrong, just that we can only plan to a certain degree before life steps in and plays its role.

Another vote for Sliver's method, another guy I know did weak math through high school, realized at 24 what he wanted to do and had to upgrade everything. His experience was that difficult math at 24 is very different from difficult math at 17. The brain (well, his at least) is a much different computer at 24 and he found it almost simple. My wife is a teacher and one of her biggest struggles is convincing parents and students that high school grades aren't the end of the road.

Taking things back to financial chatter, the teacher example is interesting. I partially blame social media, but a lot of the new teachers coming up don't see it as the gift Sliver does. The idea of going from $65,000 --> $100,000 in a decade is seen by many as not good enough. I've spoken to a lot of managers hiring for junior roles across various industries that report many young people arrive in the workforce looking for $100,000 off the hop (I fully admit this is anecdotal).

To give an example, at my wife's school they just hired a new teacher. The reason she got the job? Of the 8 candidates, she's the only one that showed up to the interview. Not one of the 7 sent an email or made a phone call to cancel. They just didn't show up.

Not trying to turn this into a "kids these days" post... perhaps things have gotten to the point where $65,000 entry jobs aren't enough for many people.

A guy I know was hiring for a role and was talking to this "kid" straight out of University. No experience, nothing, and the kid said flat out that he "wanted 6 figures in the first year". The entitlement is just astonishing.

[DoubleF]

I totally resonate with others who have posted about how dark things can feel mentally when it comes to finances and life in general. I felt that way from when the pandemic started until even earlier this year. Weighing your own value and existence to your family vs a life insurance payout is not a way to live.

Things are feeling good right now and I hope it's not just a temporary blip and this is a long term benefit for the mental side of things. I contribute this heavily to the fact decided this year I needed to go through a purge and focus a bit more on gratitude. Less is more.

Possessions are supposed to be a safety blanket and bring joy/satisfaction, but instead it felt like a prison and I had so much stuff it felt like it was metaphorically burying me alive. Somehow this ridding myself of stuff has made me feel more zen regarding my finances, even though objectively, I think my situation is on par if not worse than last year already (major work done on house 2x more than all of last year combined means more debt, mortgage renewal at higher rates, increased kid costs, increased inflation etc.).

I'm certain I've given away enough to fill a medium sized U haul and there's still so much stuff in my house. It just feels less like it's filled with clutter. I think I've unlocked enough space that I can start isolating messes into side rooms away from the main areas. I think this has helped a lot because it visually helps make me feel a little more like my house is my oasis vs another space of chaos, confusion that I cannot but should control... just like I feel about other environments like a work place. Seeing less mess helps to retain less or even (dare I say) relax when I get home. 1-3 hours to tidy the home top to bottom before guests come vs 4-6 hours over a few days is nice.

My wife and I might also be spending less money trying to get away from home? I'm unsure because I haven't tracked. But maybe activities wise, we spend time sorting, prepping and getting rid of stuff vs a restaurant meal, event tickets etc.? We also find things relating to projects that have been on the side burner for a while and we finish them. We also find that 3rd to 5th "spare" for items we could not find and had to buy a replacement for.

Another thing I started doing that I think has been huge for my own mental health is to be the cool adult to the elementary school aged me. In elementary school, I thought all adults were paragons of wisdom that had everything figured out. Hilariously, no. But pretending I am for young me has been good for my psyche. It's also not super expensive to be a cool adult for a young me. Things that were a treat to me in elementary school, I'll just randomly buy and snack on.

Gushers, fruit roll up, dunkaroos, lunchables, chips, pop, fruit cups, pizza pops, KD, jaw breakers, war heads, pixie sticks etc. Even though a bunch of them are kinda bleh to borderline disgusting to me now (ie: lunchables is an inferior charcuterie board or pizza kit) I still get them on occasion. I think it has helped me to appreciate how far I've come and feel less like I had a lacking childhood or something by catching up in this manner (honestly when I was down, I might have just unfairly painted everything with a #### brush, my childhood was pretty good IMO). Honestly speaking, many of these things I just take small bites and then share them to my 5 and 3 year old rather than eat myself. I do the same thing with certain activities. Take my kids on a small "hike" or walk at a green space and find a space to sit down and share a surprise snack and treat. Go to Calaway park/zoo/Telus sparks, taking a damn nap while the kids are watching a movie etc. To me, it is a little like a metaphorical "phantom limb release". Watching my kids enjoy inexpensive treats that we often could not afford when I was growing up helps to release any pent up frustration I might accumulate over the years regarding these memories when I look back and unfairly paint it with a #### brush. A better late than never sort of thing. Don't get me wrong, being a cool dude to myself is for me, not my kids, not a flex etc. But the more I am internally at ease, the better person I can be to them.

I think it's also far cheaper and just as satisfying as an activity than what I was doing before to address my stress. A $2-5 dollar snack or a $20-50 toy to go play with at a park, or $100 to restock a super snack container (lasts a few months between restocking) is far cheaper at an hourly rate than buying another $50-80 game, $200-400 piece of tech/toy or event/night out or more expensive endeavor/project to chase away the ennui of being an adult. That could be helping a ton in terms of almost always seeing my finances right on the line/a bit over of pay cheque to pay cheque (requiring tightening of the budget for the next month which adds stress) vs having a small regular few hundred dollar cushion I can accumulate for the months where I am right on the line or a bit over.

I'm not saying this is what others should do. I'm just saying I think these two things have been major factors in bringing me out of a dark place when thinking about my finances, which has helped me a lot when it comes to being a peace/optimistic with my situation vs being in a much mentally darker place about my situation these last few years. Like I said, I think I'm worse off than last year for finances because of things that came up, but I'll figure it out and get past it. Things should be a lot better in 5-6 years which should come faster than expected (how I feel now) vs it's so far away (how I felt).

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I have a 5 and 3 year old at 32. Can't imagine having gone through the last 3 years of my life 10 years older. Don't think I would have survived that tbh... Kudos to you older fellows who have done the baby-toddler years in your 40s. Wow. How did you deal with the total sleep deprivation?!!!?


To shift back to the other side of this thread, Howard Ducky, I sympathize with your story greatly and hope you are doing well. I started a business with a colleague 4 years ago. We weren't exactly on equal footing starting out; he had much more wealth than me and was relying on my network and skills to get the business running. We structured the ownership loosley, I had about 40%, which I at the time thought was more than fair as he was giving me a lot of freedom for someone so young, and I was essentially going to get to work my idea with someone else's money. He was also a friend that I had worked with for 4 years.

Well, 2 years in and other financial circumstances have him trying to pull out of our venture at a critical juncture. I had been doing basically all the work with him as a silent partner occasionally weighing in with a directional nudge. I needed capital to complete on a massive sale. He revealed that he had been trying to sell his portion off to a competitor. We had a fight. He reluctantly agreed to put up the money for the deal after i had already approached my supplier contact to see if I could work a deal with him to front more of the cash until the purchaser paid... but the damage was done between us. He forced me out with a small package, and the equity worked out to be pretty low value when he sold the company for scraps.

My wife was also on Mat leave with our second at the time, but her job was not at all executive level... her EI income was almost the same. I was quite panicked- but fortunately with the combined equity and savings was able to live freely for 6 months and be with her and the kids... It started out very stressful as I didn't know what to do, but once I settled down and the panic faded, i realized that it was the best time of my life. I was so unbelievably fortunate to spend that extra time with my kids while they were babies, and was able to support my wife a lot more than otherwise. We are still trying to work back our savings, but I scored a great job I am way happier about 5 months later. Because of that tight bond with the kids built during that 5-6 month window, I feel like I am way more firm about my work/life balance now than I would otherwise have been, and i feel as though it has actually benefited in my current work place. People respect that I am such an active and focused father and are vocal about supporting that.

It is stressful but things will get better. Spend the time with your kids and enjoy it. Don't worry too much about your skills and trust your network as someone else said. That's how i worked into my current role. I am a little gunshy now about thinking entrepreneurially, but I hope that will return over time as the wound heals.

Thanks for sharing. The bolded is where I'm currently at.

After this experience, nothing is more appealing to me than stability, structure, and balance. Working 24/7 and not being able to take a proper vacation has taken its toll for the past ~7 years. And the founder relations have impacted my ability to trust people and follow my instincts.

Maybe the fire returns, maybe it doesn't. But I hope I can avoid a situation where the company is sold for scraps so this whole experience wasn't for nothing. We shall wait and see.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Weitz

The last thing I’d be worried about is how I am labeled in high school.

It's not about the label, it's about the social skills you're developing. A person that locks themselves in their bedroom and studies their brains out and misses parties, sleep overs, etc. is not developing a well rounded personality. There is more to being an effective performer in the world than good grades.

So don't get caught up on the term "cool" or being "cool in high school" as though "cool" is the end goal. Being cool, liked and fun to be around is a byproduct of getting out there and enjoying life and banking experiences. It's a skill that's developed that works to your benefit. You need those funny and fun stories of shenanigans to relate to the other people.

Like, it seems obvious if you don't hang out with other people while young, then it is difficult to hang out and relate to people as you age. How many people do you hear asking 'how do I make friends' and saying 'I don't talk to anybody from my school'? I always find those stories really sad and I feel for those people, but I think it's a very difficult thing to remedy. You can't teach those kinds of social skills IMO - they have to come organically in many ways from just being and learning from other people when you're young and the world is more forgiving because all your peers are figuring things out at the same time.

To jump into hanging out with people at 30 once you have your MBA after finishing the IB program in high school is virtually impossible.

But there's more than one way to skin a cat. If you think burying your nose in a book to get 96% for the same piece of paper I'll get with my 78% then go nuts. I'd venture to say I'll be the guy with the richer experience during my youth remembering all the parties, Bowness Park drinking nights, sneaking out of the house, etc. than the person whose life revolves around grades, but I could be wrong. I'm absolutely gambling my kids' future that I'm right, though.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah Math 30-2 is the last math course my daughter will ever take in her life. She just needs to get into education, which requires like a 90 average or something insane. It's a highly sought after program because it's a ticket to dat e-z life and kids have wised up to that. For that reason we had to be super strategic in high school to make sure her grades were there. Once you're in the program it's smooth sailing until early retirement with every summer off for 30 years. Woot.

I can't be the only one thinking how Sliver's view of teachers will change as her daughter works through that career. Good luck to her, by the way!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I can't be the only one thinking how Sliver's view of teachers will change as her daughter works through that career. Good luck to her, by the way!

I will make a promise: I'll eat crow if that ends up being the case. I vow to not pigheadedly stick to what I've historically said if it turns out I was wrong. I don't have an ego or any reason to try to view or portray reality as anything other than what it is on this. If it turns out it's a hard job working 3/4 of a year for $100k during a shortened career with unbeatable benefits I'll be completely at peace with admitting it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I will make a promise: I'll eat crow if that ends up being the case. I vow to not pigheadedly stick to what I've historically said if it turns out I was wrong. I don't have an ego or any reason to try to view or portray reality as anything other than what it is on this. If it turns out it's a hard job working 3/4 of a year for $100k during a shortened career with unbeatable benefits I'll be completely at peace with admitting it.

And I was sincere in my post that I am looking forward to hearing about how you see things.

Who knows. I feel like you might start liking Nose Hill Park and wanting to restrict development in the mountains. Things can change.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Thanks for sharing. The bolded is where I'm currently at.

After this experience, nothing is more appealing to me than stability, structure, and balance. Working 24/7 and not being able to take a proper vacation has taken its toll for the past ~7 years. And the founder relations have impacted my ability to trust people and follow my instincts.

Maybe the fire returns, maybe it doesn't. But I hope I can avoid a situation where the company is sold for scraps so this whole experience wasn't for nothing. We shall wait and see.

Yeah, the stability and comfort of a 9-5 (8-4 in my case... ) is hard to beat. Especially with kids so young! I have 0 guilt at dropping everything around 4 to be home for dinner/activities every night.

That being said, I wouldn't say the selling for scraps left me with "nothing". There was some monetary benefit- while things were going good in year 1-1.5, I substantially upgraded a lot of conditions in my life, put in good seed funds for my kids RESPs, added substantially to my own retirement pile, and kept our relatively high standard of life through my wife's mat leave.
+ I learned a lot. More than I could have imagined. Work skills. Life skills. Importance of specific things. Lessons that I probably would not have taken easily outside of these circumstances.
Even if you don't benefit financially from the end of this business, you have other ways to derive benefit! Don't forget them

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

And I was sincere in my post that I am looking forward to hearing about how you see things.

Who knows. I feel like you might start liking Nose Hill Park and wanting to restrict development in the mountains. Things can change.

You just had to take it one step too far, didn't you?

[you&me]

Wait, there are people that like Nose Hill Park?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by you&me

Wait, there are people that like Nose Hill Park?

Yes. Some people enjoy thistle, dead grass, dog crap and tumbleweed, obviously. It's just a bonus for them it burns down once a year.

Such a beautiful park.