Tipping- Part XLV

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Not that you know of.

You watch way too many movies.

[bdubbs]

I yearn for the day North America joins most other non-North American countries in their tipping system. It's absurd that workers need to subsist on tips to survive.

[fotze2]

Those tip requests work though. I feel the guilt so bad that I do 20% as a minimum on delivery and 20% at f'in Subway or pickup and i feel bad about that little.

Its not because I am better than the rest of you (which I am) and tip to address society's oppressive exploitation of the proletariat. It's because I am terrified that some stranger might think I'm cheap.

And holy moly, a Subway notification just popped up on my phone as I typed that!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

I yearn for the day North America joins most other non-North American countries in their tipping system. It's absurd that workers need to subsist on tips to survive.

This is a false narrative though based on depression era practices of people working for free. A server working minimum wage is no more or less requiring a tip to survive then any of the other minimum wage job out there.

What you are really paying for when you tip is to have attractive young people serving you. Servers whether male or female skew young, white and attractive relative to say a fast food position.

Tipping makes these roles attractive to these people.

[flamesfever]

I don't know whether this has been covered, but do you guys realize how many kids manage to pay a good part of their way through university with tips, and how many single mothers with dead beat husbands manage to survive on tips?

Shame on you for not thinking of them.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I don't know whether this has been covered, but do you guys realize how many kids manage to pay a good part of their way through university with tips, and how many single mothers with dead beat husbands manage to survive on tips?

Shame on you for not thinking of them.

Yeah I think everyone here understands that people use money for good and services. The thing is though that I really don’t care and it’s no difference to me how anyone pays for the things they want and need in their life. With that said there is no reason anyone needs to pay a premium for goods and services where tips are expected, it’s a thoughtful gesture to leave a tip. If tipping becomes an expectation, I will quit tipping entirely.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I don't know whether this has been covered, but do you guys realize how many kids manage to pay a good part of their way through university with tips, and how many single mothers with dead beat husbands manage to survive on tips?

Shame on you for not thinking of them.

May as well shame them for not thinking or caring about those same people who work jobs where tipping isn’t the norm while you’re at it. Unfortunately a large portion of society seems to have no problem accepting people being exploited so long as it’s not them.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

May as well shame them for not thinking or caring about those same people who work jobs where tipping isn’t the norm while you’re at it. Unfortunately a large portion of society seems to have no problem accepting people being exploited so long as it’s not them.

If you are asking why I have more empathy for the student and single mother working in a restaurant, than say a grocery store clerk, then my answer would be 1) that they are in a much more vulnerable occupation e.g. 60% of restaurants fail in the first year, and 80% in the first 5 years. And 2) the student is being proactive in bettering herself, and the single mother usually has more of an uphill battle to survive.

As far as a large portion of society being exploited, I don't believe that. It's true that life can be difficult for the working poor in Canada, especially at this point in time, but fortunately they have it much better here than the majority of people in other areas of the world. If that was not true, we wouldn't have the large number of immigrants trying to make Canada their home.

[The Yen Man]

I didn't know single mothers and students worked exclusively at restaurants. What about all the single mothers and students working min wage at Coop or 7/11? Do you tip them too?

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I didn't know single mothers and students worked exclusively at restaurants. What about all the single mothers and students working min wage at Coop or 7/11? Do you tip them too?

They don't. We are just talking about the ones that do. NO.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I don't know whether this has been covered, but do you guys realize how many kids manage to pay a good part of their way through university with tips, and how many single mothers with dead beat husbands manage to survive on tips?

Shame on you for not thinking of them.

I always causally slip in a conversation with my waitress to find out if she is a single mom or has a deadbeat husband, surprisingly I've never had a single mom with a deadbeat husband but maybe that will happen soon, in order to tip accordingly.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

If you are asking why I have more empathy for the student and single mother working in a restaurant, than say a grocery store clerk, then my answer would be 1) that they are in a much more vulnerable occupation e.g. 60% of restaurants fail in the first year, and 80% in the first 5 years. And 2) the student is being proactive in bettering herself, and the single mother usually has more of an uphill battle to survive.

As far as a large portion of society being exploited, I don't believe that. It's true that life can be difficult for the working poor in Canada, especially at this point in time, but fortunately they have it much better here than the majority of people in other areas of the world. If that was not true, we wouldn't have the large number of immigrants trying to make Canada their home.

Do you support the UCP law that allows for Alberta businesses to pay a lower minimum wage to employees under the age 18? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing you post about how much empathy you had for students who are being proactive in bettering themselves when the UCP government made age discrimination legal.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I always causally slip in a conversation with my waitress to find out if she is a single mom or has a deadbeat husband, surprisingly I've never had a single mom with a deadbeat husband but maybe that will happen soon, in order to tip accordingly.

Did you ever stop to think that they’re telling you that they’re not single because they probably get hit on all day and are assuming that you’re just going to be another one of those customers?

Asking if they have a deadbeat husband comes off as pretty intrusive, even if your intentions are good. Just saying.

Personally I know quite a few waitresses that are both single mothers and have absent or mostly absent fathers of their children so I’m surprised you’ve yet to come across one if you’re actively digging for that information. I’ve also known at least 1 who’s a single mother and the father isn’t a deadbeat but she plays it up as if he is for better tips. Which I think is pretty brutal for him.

[topfiverecords]

Wow

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Do you support the UCP law that allows for Alberta businesses to pay a lower minimum wage to employees under the age 18? Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing you post about how much empathy you had for students who are being proactive in bettering themselves when the UCP government made age discrimination legal.

Employees under 18 are generally being supported by parents and the government (free education), so I can see where it may benefit small businesses, to be able to hire underage students in order to lower their labor costs. Jobs like babysitting, caring for animals, property maintenance, working on farms, etc. come to mind.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

If you are asking why I have more empathy for the student and single mother working in a restaurant, than say a grocery store clerk, then my answer would be 1) that they are in a much more vulnerable occupation e.g. 60% of restaurants fail in the first year, and 80% in the first 5 years. And 2) the student is being proactive in bettering herself, and the single mother usually has more of an uphill battle to survive.

I wasn’t asking that. I was pointing out how some posters have a somewhat hypocritical attitude towards lower income workers who get tips compared to those that don’t.(My previous post wasn’t meant to be directed at you, but to be fair I may have to reassess that based on this post)

I don’t really agree with your assessment of serving jobs being more vulnerable than others based on the reasoning that you’ve suggested though. Based on what servers have told me and what I’ve seen happen to a number of them it can be a very cutthroat industry where you’re far more likely to lose your job or shifts due to workplace politics or favouritism rather than the place closing down. There’s generally an abundance of serving jobs overall due to the fact that they don’t pay as well as many people assume.

When compared to other low wage industries for the most part you stand the same chance of being let go from any other job because employers don’t need just cause to terminate your employment in this province and employers also know that those employees a) don’t make enough money to take their employers to court over severance and b) the difference in what they’re likely entitled to over what they actually got won’t outweigh the legal costs of taking them to court. IMO workers in low wage industries deserve better protection across the board.

As far as a large portion of society being exploited, I don't believe that. It's true that life can be difficult for the working poor in Canada, especially at this point in time, but fortunately they have it much better here than the majority of people in other areas of the world. If that was not true, we wouldn't have the large number of immigrants trying to make Canada their home.

I think this a flawed argument. Just because a Canadian worker makes more than their counterparts in a third world country doesn’t mean they’re not being exploited by our countries standards. But you’re free to believe whatever you want to believe, that doesn’t necessarily make you right though.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Employees under 18 are generally being supported by parents and the government (free education), so I can see where it may benefit small businesses, to be able to hire underage students in order to lower their labor costs. Jobs like babysitting, caring for animals, property maintenance, working on farms, etc. come to mind.

Just so I'm not misunderstanding you, do you agree that it's right and proper that a grocery store can legally pay a 17 year old high school student (who is trying to save money for their upcoming post-secondary education) a lower minimum wage than a 19 year old university student (who is trying to save money for their current post-secondary education) even though both employees work exactly the same hours and perform exactly the same job duties?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Employees under 18 are generally being supported by parents and the government (free education), so I can see where it may benefit small businesses, to be able to hire underage students in order to lower their labor costs. Jobs like babysitting, caring for animals, property maintenance, working on farms, etc. come to mind.

Why then do you and the UCP deem them to be worth the regular minimum wage if they work over 28 hour/week? You can still be supported by your parents and work that many hours. It’s plain and simply an exploitative law that almost certainly wouldn’t survive a human rights challenge. Also their education isn’t free, we all collectively pay for it, as do their parents.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Just so I'm not misunderstanding you, do you agree that it's right and proper that a grocery store can legally pay a 17 year old high school student (who is trying to save money for their upcoming post-secondary education) a lower minimum wage than a 19 year old university student (who is trying to save money for their current post-secondary education) even though both employees work exactly the same hours and perform exactly the same job duties?

Yes, but I would probably be more comfortable if the cutoff was 16 instead of 18,

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Yes, but I would probably be more comfortable if the cutoff was 16 instead of 18,

Why? What difference does it make if Employee A is a high school student living with their parents and employee B is a middle-aged single mother of two if both employees work the same hours and perform the same job duties?

Why do you support legal age discrimination for businesses? People aren't compensated based on their individual expenses and personal financial situation; they're compensated based on the value they provide to their employer.