Craig Conroy and "The Dallas Model"

[Jason14h]

Its not an either / Or

You need to do both - Hit on some later 1st and 2nd Round picks AND get some superstar potential talent at the top of the draft

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Its not an either / Or

You need to do both - Hit on some later 1st and 2nd Round picks AND get some superstar potential talent at the top of the draft

Aka, you need to suck for a few years and draft high which means being a poor team on the ice, and the idea of a 2-3 year turn around that we keep talking about is basically a fools errand?

[NewFan]

Can you guys imaging if McDavid drafted by Dallas, San Jose or Nashville or some teams in a great market? I think he should be won a couple of cups already.
He would have wingers like Patrick Kanes or Stones or Ds like Pietrangelos or Hamiltons.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by NewFan

Can you guys imaging if McDavid drafted by Dallas, San Jose or Nashville or some teams in a great market? I think he should be won a couple of cups already.
He would have wingers like Patrick Kanes or Stones or Ds like Pietrangelos or Hamiltons.

I don’t think the market is the problem. It’s the organization.

The Oilers were (and are) a poorly managed organization. They don’t draft well, they go after poor UFA targets (Lucic, Campbell), and spent futures wildly for years (two 2nd round picks for like 12 games of Athanasiou).

The Oilers haven’t won with McDavid because they have done nearly everything wrong after drafting him.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But that kind of is BS - It's 'best' at drafting from where they pick and number of picks. Every week at least once you have to let everyone know according to one third party they are the best at drafting using that sites method. Wohoo. We are good at getting better second through 7th round players on average then the league.

They have hit on some nice support players in later rounds (their 1st round pick have mostly been meh so far) But since they trade a lot of picks, a few late round support player skew the overall ranking

Is it nice the Flames find some support players in the later rounds. Of course. However, the team hasn't drafted a true impact player since MT (Which was a 6th overall higher then we have drafted since)

The Flames aren't finding superstars in the draft recently (Its really hard late in the 1st / later rounds)

We are hoping other teams miss on players and the Flames can identify them. I for one thinking betting on the Flames to be smarter then every other organization is a worse bet then draft the best players because your team sucks and sucking gets the picks that guarantee the best players are available

Having yourself an angry Sunday are you?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Not trying to be a dick - But at least once a week you ensure you post as a rebuttle "Flames are the best drafting team" because you read a list that you liked based on one sites criteria.

I look at the Flames drafting in the past 10 years and think "meh" at best

Ok lets ignore a guy that writes weekly across the league analysis of all things NHL and just go with the angry fan that says "meh!"

Flames have done well drafting with limited draft capital.

That's not a huge leap.

Still leaves plenty of criticism for trading away draft capital or banking on a core or cores that didn't get it done.

[kukkudo]

Also comes down to having a good management team and a solid coach. The Dallas model is fluke and rare. Flames just need to stick with the game plan in the next few years and load up on picks.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Aka, you need to suck for a few years and draft high which means being a poor team on the ice, and the idea of a 2-3 year turn around that we keep talking about is basically a fools errand?

I think a 2-3 yeat turn around is do-able but it takes alot of luck.

The key is that if you're going to miss, you miss HARD and get top picks for 2 or 3 years.. The flames are incapable of doing this. Theyre deadset on winning meaningless games and ruining their draft spot, then patting themselves on the back for their great attitude.
They're back to back playoff misses and they'll have a 13th oa and a 9th oa to show for it. Huge waste of the last two years imo.

Teams like Dallas and LA have done it where they missed for 2-3 years and we're back in it but they got heiskenans, byfields and Clarke out of it. Albeit Dallas got lucky with the lottery win.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Having yourself an angry Sunday are you?

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ok lets ignore a guy that writes weekly across the league analysis of all things NHL and just go with the angry fan that says "meh!".

I mean one of you sounds like they're having an angry sunday, haha.

[traptor]

Those drafting analysis that i saw aren't based on which teams are best at drafting elite impact makers.
It's based on which teams draft the most NHL level players.

It does seem like the flames are great at drafting role players that can be in the NHL, but I don't think they're anything special (obviously...) at drafting elite talent, which is what we need right now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by traptor

Those drafting analysis that i saw aren't based on which teams are best at drafting elite impact makers.
It's based on which teams draft the most NHL level players.

It does seem like the flames are great at drafting role players that can be in the NHL, but I don't think they're anything special (obviously...) at drafting elite talent, which is what we need right now.

It's more than that.

It's straight value.

With a set value by impact established.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I mean one of you sounds like they're having an angry sunday, haha.

Go back and read what he said to Jiri and then tell me I'm the angry one.

Come on people ...

[Ped]

The Flames have drafted well - no question about that. They've gotten great value for where their picks have been and how many picks they have. But they need to draft a superstar or a game changer - Fox never signed obviously, and Gaudreau and Thachuk are both gone (Gaudreau not much of a game changer anymore, obviously). It's really great they've picked some really good players - but they need to pick a difference-maker and have them still be here.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's more than that.

It's straight value.

With a set value by impact established.

I mean in the same way that 4 quarters is a $1 and so is a looney.

The flames are great at drafting nickels and dimes. They need some loonies.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Well I agree with JiriHrdina, our scouting and drafting does look very good when they're picking. I feel they would have unearthed a couple more gems and some other solid players if Brad Treliving didn't keep putting his hand in the cookie jar every time he saw a depth defenseman or checking forward he just had to have.

For sure. Need more bullets and better bullets.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Its not an either / Or

You need to do both - Hit on some later 1st and 2nd Round picks AND get some superstar potential talent at the top of the draft

Absolutely. No debate about that.
If they can maintain their ability to find players later in the draft, that helps because you don't have to then send out picks to fill out middle/bottom of the line-up positions. Basically you need a healthy pipeline to avoid that deficit spending. Instead they have been sending out picks to bring in those depth positions.

If they can apply their strong scouting to higher and more picks - it's a potential advantage.

[EDMONTONisNG]

Originally Posted by NewFan

Can you guys imaging if McDavid drafted by Dallas, San Jose or Nashville or some teams in a great market? I think he should be won a couple of cups already.
He would have wingers like Patrick Kanes or Stones or Ds like Pietrangelos or Hamiltons.

Agreed. Draisatl and Hyman are scrubs.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by EDMONTONisNG

Agreed. Draisatl and Hyman are scrubs.

Just a reminder this poster is an Oilers fan pretending to be a Flames fan.

[EDMONTONisNG]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Just a reminder this poster is an Oilers fan pretending to be a Flames fan.

You dont know much about hockey if you think draisatl and hyman are good hockey players, lol.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For sure. Need more bullets and better bullets.

And more Tod Buttons.