[Trade] Hanifin (salary retained) to Vegas for Miromanov + 2026 1st + cond 3rd

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bonded

So Conroy should never try and maximize a return? What’s the true upside, the rental price won’t increase.

You are correct. The only way for Conroy to have received a sign and trade upside is if the player (Hanifin) tells the team where he would sign and trade. If people are upset that Hanifin did this what they are advocating for is a clean system where every trade is a rental.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

This should really be the path going forward. The player should never tell the team or any team where he is willing to sign. Make every player a rental trade so that everyone is happy. If teams even asked Conroy if Hanifin was willing to sign longterm Conroy should have said “pound sand, I am trading a rental not a sign and trade”.

Yeah, the Tkachuk sign and trade was a one off. And I know there are lots of issues with how the return was handled… but holy #### are we ever lucky we got that return.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I guess that depends if Tkachuk would have stayed or not. But yeah, the Gaudreau Columbus got I would not want.

Even if Tkachuk stays, that’s an overpayment for Gaudreau, it appears. Both on the market value he commanded and got paid and as it turned out in his play. You might give Tkachuk the 10.5 and Gaudreau the 9.5 that Chuck got.

[Huntingwhale]

I have no hard feelings towards Noah given how things went. I will NEVER blame any person, let alone a 27 year old multi-millionaire, using their wealth and leverage to find a way to move to the city they want when given the opportunity. Let's not pretend Calgary is a world-class 5 star destination city that millions of people around the world are hustling to get to. Fans get so upset when people simply want to move away whether it be for the weather, family, pay raise, whatever. All of those are legitimate reasons to move away to another place and nobody can hold it against you. It's okay to accept that some people simply don't want to live here and want to find opportunity elsewhere. I know dozens of people like that, and likely many of you all know people like that who left on a whim for "greener pastures".

Hanifin could have sulked, pouted, sat out, whatever. Instead he went on an absolute tear since the moment trade rumors began and will be scoring himself a massive payday at the destination of his choosing on UFA day. Anybody who makes it known they want to leave, yet play themselves up to the next tier deserves respect for playing like that. This could have easily led to a Zadarov or Lindholm pout-n-cry scenario, but it was the complete opposite. As hockey fans, we should at least acknowledge Hanifin's level of play. Don't we always say it's the on-ice performance that matters?

I'm not really going to cheer for him wherever he ends up, neither will I boo him. Just...it is what it is. Dude made his intentions known to the GM, who managed to get a decent haul for him. Was it the blockbuster was all expected? No, but the most important thing is the UFA didn't walk for nothing. I will gladly take an unprotected 1st rounder, take it and run.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You are correct. The only way for Conroy to have received a sign and trade upside is if the player (Hanifin) tells the team where he would sign and trade. If people are upset that Hanifin did this what they are advocating for is a clean system where every trade is a rental.

I don't see why a GM would ever limit returns. Hanifin did give a list of teams he'd sign with and I don't think Hanifin was offside on how he handled things on his end.
Seems like people are just mad he wouldn't sign anywhere in order to get the Flames the best return while also expecting a better return if he didn't give a list of teams he'd re-sign with.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don't see why a GM would ever limit returns. Hanifin did give a list of teams he'd sign with and I don't think Hanifin was offside on how he handled things on his end.
Seems like people are just mad he wouldn't sign anywhere in order to get the Flames the best return while also expecting a better return if he didn't give a list of teams he'd re-sign with.

I agree, my first post was written with my tongue firmly in my cheek.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I don't see why a GM would ever limit returns. Hanifin did give a list of teams he'd sign with and I don't think Hanifin was offside on how he handled things on his end.
Seems like people are just mad he wouldn't sign anywhere in order to get the Flames the best return while also expecting a better return if he didn't give a list of teams he'd re-sign with.

To take it a step further, I don't know why he would sign before being traded at this point (weeks from free agency) even if the trade was to a team he wanted to go to. As a rental he's worth a couple of picks and a prospect, as an extended player he's worth that plus maybe a roster player or two. Why would he want to make his new team weaker?

If we wanted a non-rental return, I think we had to have traded him last off season.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s normal teams would want to talk to him first about his chances of signing with them.

Did you expect him to lie?

If he said nothing teams would assume it’s a rental.

I think the thought he screwed Calgary is blown out of proportion. Calgary got a rental price like you normally do at the deadline.

No. I expect him to be silent. You give the Flames your 8-team list as is included in your contract and thats it.

He doesnt have a full NMC. He has an 8-team list. That doesnt mean he gets to go out to the media and declare from rooftops that he will only sign in Tampa or Boston as though he has full control.

Because making those declarations reduces return.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. I expect him to be silent. You give the Flames your 8-team list as is included in your contract and thats it.

He doesnt have a full NMC. He has an 8-team list. That doesnt mean he gets to go out to the media and declare from rooftops that he will only sign in Tampa or Boston as though he has full control.

Because making those declarations reduces return.

Teams aren’t going to pay any more for him than the rental cost if they don’t know whether he’ll sign.

So, it doesn’t reduce the return, it potentially increases it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Teams aren’t going to pay any more for him than the rental cost if they don’t know whether he’ll sign.

So, it doesn’t reduce the return, it potentially increases it.

Some teams are pretty confident about signing a player though. Flames were with Jaybo for example.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I have no hard feelings towards Noah given how things went. I will NEVER blame any person, let alone a 27 year old multi-millionaire, using their wealth and leverage to find a way to move to the city they want when given the opportunity. Let's not pretend Calgary is a world-class 5 star destination city that millions of people around the world are hustling to get to. Fans get so upset when people simply want to move away whether it be for the weather, family, pay raise, whatever. All of those are legitimate reasons to move away to another place and nobody can hold it against you. It's okay to accept that some people simply don't want to live here and want to find opportunity elsewhere. I know dozens of people like that, and likely many of you all know people like that who left on a whim for "greener pastures".

Hanifin could have sulked, pouted, sat out, whatever. Instead he went on an absolute tear since the moment trade rumors began and will be scoring himself a massive payday at the destination of his choosing on UFA day. Anybody who makes it known they want to leave, yet play themselves up to the next tier deserves respect for playing like that. This could have easily led to a Zadarov or Lindholm pout-n-cry scenario, but it was the complete opposite. As hockey fans, we should at least acknowledge Hanifin's level of play. Don't we always say it's the on-ice performance that matters?

I'm not really going to cheer for him wherever he ends up, neither will I boo him. Just...it is what it is. Dude made his intentions known to the GM, who managed to get a decent haul for him. Was it the blockbuster was all expected? No, but the most important thing is the UFA didn't walk for nothing. I will gladly take an unprotected 1st rounder, take it and run.

I mean he had no reason to pout and cry, he is getting paid millions, and the Flames aggressively tried to get him signed all season until they couldn't.

This isn't free agency, he is still contracted to the team. Going around telling teams to stay away was classless by the agent. He will get to UFA he can sign with whoever he wants.

How can you say you respect someone so much, but have your agent actively try to sabotage a trade in the background. Makes no sense.

Zadorov was different he was shooting off his mouth, and had his agent throw shots at the team on Twitter, because the team didn't prioritize signing him and rightfully so.

Lindholm came at us with unrealistic demands, and pouted his way out of town, but it looks like his play has carried over to Vancouver and he has killed his chances of robbing a team of a big contract.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Teams aren’t going to pay any more for him than the rental cost if they don’t know whether he’ll sign.

So, it doesn’t reduce the return, it potentially increases it.

Most teams never get a chance to speak to the player anyways. It is very rare. We had no idea if Huberdeau and Weegar would sign extensions.

I remember during the Stone saga Ottawa never allowed teams to speak to him, and I think that was a big reason we backed off as well. Everyone knew he was headed to Vegas and it hurt his return big time.

Luckily Vegas is super aggressive and gave us a good deal, knowing he was trying to get his way to Tampa.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Locke

Because making those declarations reduces return.

Walk me through this thought process. So Hanifin says nothing and every team is treating him as a rental. How would that increase the return? Teams won't pay more for a maybe, they will just treat it is a no.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Some teams are pretty confident about signing a player though. Flames were with Jaybo for example.

yeah, but that was a trade for his rights.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

To take it a step further, I don't know why he would sign before being traded at this point (weeks from free agency) even if the trade was to a team he wanted to go to. As a rental he's worth a couple of picks and a prospect, as an extended player he's worth that plus maybe a roster player or two. Why would he want to make his new team weaker?

If we wanted a non-rental return, I think we had to have traded him last off season.

The real time to trade players was the last deadline.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Most teams never get a chance to speak to the player anyways. It is very rare. We had no idea if Huberdeau and Weegar would sign extensions.

I remember during the Stone saga Ottawa never allowed teams to speak to him, and I think that was a big reason we backed off as well. Everyone knew he was headed to Vegas and it hurt his return big time.

Luckily Vegas is super aggressive and gave us a good deal, knowing he was trying to get his way to Tampa.

We had Huberdeau and Weegar for a year before they hit UFA, though. So, lots of time to figure out a contract or flip them elsewhere.

Teams that trade for pending UFAs don’t have the luxury of that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

yeah, but that was a trade for his rights.

Same thing though. The Flames had confidence they could sign him or else it was a wasted use of a late pick.

I actually think this was a little unusual. Most agents wouldn't be telling teams "there's no chance". They'd say "let's talk and see what you'd be offering". Most players want the best deal, not "I only want to play in X". I strikes me that many players who want to play only in one certain place, lose their mojo when they get there.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yeah, the Tkachuk sign and trade was a one off. And I know there are lots of issues with how the return was handled… but holy #### are we ever lucky we got that return.

I'm plugging the Athletic a lot, but this is a bit of an inside read on that trade and shows it was a really different circumstance than the Hanifin trade: https://theathletic.com/3625254/2022...berdeau-trade/

Tkachuk was still an RFA for that next season and a true superstar, and both of those things played a big part in why Calgary got such a good deal. He would have had to play a full year with wherever he was traded, and he was looking to sign a long term contract with the team that traded for him (and not just one team).

"Tkachuk: Wherever I was going, I wanted to be there for as long as possible."

He wouldn't have signed long term with every team, but Tkachuk gave the Flames a list of teams where he would sign, and Zito knew that he Florida wasn't the only destination where he would go, so he was very motivated to trade for this player.

Unlike Hanifin, Tkachuk wasn't limiting his options, so instead of negotiating against the Flames like what it appears Hanifin's agent did, Tkachuk's agent negotiated for the Flames to get him to a city where he wanted to play long term.

Still, I agree that the return was exceptional for an RFA, regardless of Huberdeau's contract and how he's played.

[Calgary4LIfe]

There is often more than one way of looking at things when players leave.



Gaudreau:
Drafted here, signed here when he could have returned to college and then became a UFA (or made it known he didn't want to sign here). Then he re-signed here giving up a few UFA years. Spent a total of 9 seasons playing for Calgary, and 12 in total counting when he was first drafted.

a) He did sway back and forth between re-signing and moving on, and it took until the last minute to just convince himself that he wants to move closer to the USA.
b) He purposefully kept the Flames in limbo, negotiating in bad faith stringing them along with no intent to re-sign in Calgary


Tkachuk:
Drafted and played right away. Signed with Calgary, then extended with a contract that gave him full leverage as a UFA even though he didn't give up any UFA years at all. Told the GM he is not interested in re-signing in Calgary, and forced his way off the team.
a) Tkachuk left Calgary as soon as possible, and the writing was on the wall the second his second contract was signed.
b) Love him because he at least gave the Flames warning so that they could get assets back for him.


Hanifin:
Got traded here, and signed a 6 year deal. Played hard, never complained, never pouted. When negotiations came up, said he preferred to go elsewhere. Some teams were willing to pay a rental price, others a contract extension price. Hanifin provided a list of teams he was willing to extend in.
a) He gave the Flames an opportunity to maximize the return from teams who were happy to extend him
b) He screwed the Flames by not willing to extend anywhere


Probably more angles for each player than listed. I do find it interesting that some people definitely lean into the "screw those selfish players" point of view, and others lean into understanding the players' situations more.



The only time I really boo a player is if a player demands a trade out, or is unwilling to sign when drafted. If a player got drafted, played, and then after a while said that he prefers to sign elsewhere, that's cool. I understand the booing, but personally I am not offended as long as that player doesn't trash the organization and community.



For me, Drury can go suck an egg since he demanded a trade. Nieuwendyk is fine because he was fine right up until he realized that he was severely underpaid, and contract re-negotiations were allowed back then. Riseborough and economics was more of an issue back then. Fox can go suck an egg (and Erixon, and Hickey).



I have always sort of looked at it as the business goes both ways. I like how Conroy is handling things - either sign, or you get traded. I felt it was a mistake to go into Gaudreau's final year without a deal in place - the risk is there that the player leaves, and that's what happened. Don't want to sign a player for what the player is demanding? Trade the player, even if the returns are underwhelming. Calgary is not a organization that attracts high-level UFAs, and they weren't a contender coming off a 3 round playoff run. Brodie should have been traded in the off-season prior to becoming a UFA (or extended) too.



The business for me is both ways. I don't blame the players when they end up choosing to move on, and I don't blame the organization when they decide to trade the players. Losing assets for free is what should never happen. I don't see it as Hanifin screwing over the Flames right now - unless his agent was telling teams that Hanifin wouldn't want to play for them at all, instead of just not wanting to extend there. A bit of a difference to me.



As for the returns, I want to say that I hope Vegas re-signs Hanifin so that the other teams who do want to keep give him a contract but were too cheap to give up enough assets to trade for him get shut out completely. Would serve them right. However, I would prefer that Hanifin move on from Vegas, as I view him as a good defencemen. Vegas has been bleeding assets trying to keep the team competitive. Lots of contracts up between now and the 2026 pick, Stone is often injured, etc. That 2026 pick might be another lottery ball in the McKenna sweepstakes, so I hope he signs elsewhere, and I hope that only cap negative assets remain.


Besides, it would be nice to know that Vegas fans know what it feels like to watch your team suck for a while. Lottery ticket + Vegas fans understanding the pain of mediocrity for a while makes me hope that Hanifin signs elsewhere.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Locke

No. I expect him to be silent. You give the Flames your 8-team list as is included in your contract and thats it.

He doesnt have a full NMC. He has an 8-team list. That doesnt mean he gets to go out to the media and declare from rooftops that he will only sign in Tampa or Boston as though he has full control.

Because making those declarations reduces return.

Do we know if he "declared it from roof tops" or did it become common knowledge after a couple of teams asked to speak to Hanifin about signing an extension?