[Rumour] Dreger: Markstrom trade won't happen unless NJ includes Mercer and higher draft pick

[musth]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Yes, Markstrom for this year was the best goalie available. Goalies however are not particularly valuable in comparison to top assets at other positions. And the 3rd year of term isn't great for his value at age 36

But bbut but GSA-x or whatever!

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

There is a serious mental disconnect between these 2 posts

There's really not. It's just understanding that age, cap hit, and position are significant impacts on a players value

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by musth

But bbut but GSA-x or whatever!

GSAx is literally the primary point in favour of Markstrom. His GAA and Sv% numbers are nothing special. His GSAx numbers this year are incredible.

Pick one and remain consistent. Either the GSAx numbers matter or they don't.

[PaperBagger'14]

The best goalie available, at a ~3mil cap hit is worth more than a cost controlled 3rd line centerman. If you believe otherwise and aren’t trolling, that’s fine but I highly question your ability to participate in these discussions as your bias is very strong.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The best goalie available, at a ~3mil cap hit is worth more than a cost controlled 3rd line centerman. If you believe otherwise and aren’t trolling, that’s fine but I highly question your ability to participate in these discussions as your bias is very strong.

A centre who doesn't play centre at the NHL level.

[musth]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The best goalie available, at a ~3mil cap hit is worth more than a cost controlled 3rd line centerman. If you believe otherwise and aren’t trolling, that’s fine but I highly question your ability to participate in these discussions as your bias is very strong.

For 2. 5 more years, nach... That's great value.

[getbak]

[dfsflamesfan]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

There's really not. It's just understanding that age, cap hit, and position are significant impacts on a players value

Just take a deep breath off the ledge... The trade didn't happen so you can breathe/sleep easier. Sounds like you aren't convinced that your team's contention window is now, similar to NJ's GM.

Fitzgerald wasn't willing to pony up to go all in for his team like Zito, McCrimmon, or even Alvin to a certain extent. He should've always knew that it would need to be an overpayment to even consider getting any "elite"/"good" midseason goaltender that you've listed like Hill, Ullmark, Markstrom, or Saros. You know what good goaltending gets you? Usually a winning record and nothing to mess with internally!

He's literally asking any team with good goaltending (Nashville or Calgary) to throw their own seasons down the drain like NJ after knowing they had bad goaltending. He really didn't need to come out saying he was being extorted when no one was even looking to trade their "good" goaltenders and messing with something good in their own house. Which is why people laugh at his comments.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Markstrom has had a fantastic season in GSAx. He was the best on the market for this year. Unfortunately the flames GM doesn't have the authority to make big boy trades like that yet. Only allowed to move rentals that refuse to sign.

Big boy trades are reserved for getting studs like Jake Allen.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by dfsflamesfan

Just take a deep breath off the ledge... The trade didn't happen so you can breathe/sleep easier. Sounds like you aren't convinced that your team's contention window is now, similar to NJ's GM.

Fitzgerald wasn't willing to pony up to go all in for his team like Zito, McCrimmon, or even Alvin to a certain extent. He should've always knew that it would need to be an overpayment to even consider getting any "elite"/"good" midseason goaltender that you've listed like Hill, Ullmark, Markstrom, or Saros. You know what good goaltending gets you? Usually a winning record and nothing to mess with internally!

He's literally asking any team with good goaltending (Nashville or Calgary) to throw their own seasons down the drain like NJ after knowing they had bad goaltending. He really didn't need to come out saying he was being extorted when no one was even looking to trade their "good" goaltenders and messing with something good in their own house. Which is why people laugh at his comments.

All of those teams have older cores. NJD is still a top 5 youngest team in hockey. If we make the playoffs we'll be the youngest team in the playoffs.

This is absolutely not the time to go all in.

Let's look at 3 of the goalies you mention and their acquisition costs for their current team:

Adin Hill: 4th/free to retain as UFA
Jacob Markstrom: free as a UFA
Linus Ullmark: free as a UFA

Again it's why I scoff at the idea that you can only get a top goalie via massively paying up in a trade. It is virtually the only position where you can in fact find a top guy without breaking the bank. You can't get a C like that. Even a 2C will cost you boatloads in free agency (see the ridiculous contract asks of Elias Lindholm)

Calgary was willing to offer Elias Lindholm 9 mill a year from age 31-38.

Mercer will cost at most around 6-6.5 mill AAV from age 22-29.

Personally I'd much rather have mercer over that time frame straight up, not even including the 24 million dollars you'd save

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

GSAx is literally the primary point in favour of Markstrom. His GAA and Sv% numbers are nothing special. His GSAx numbers this year are incredible.

Pick one and remain consistent. Either the GSAx numbers matter or they don't.

Now you're gettin there.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Now you're gettin there.

Great. My valuation of Markstrom in that case just went way down on a 34 year old goalie with mediocre GAA and SV% numbers. based on his SV%, GAA, and cap hit, I'm thinking future considerations.

His GSAx is fantastic, but if that doesn't matter I'm sure a guy with SV% and GAA numbers around the 10-20 mark making top 5 money isn't worth much

[Southside]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

All of those teams have older cores. NJD is still a top 5 youngest team in hockey. If we make the playoffs we'll be the youngest team in the playoffs.

This is absolutely not the time to go all in.

Let's look at 3 of the goalies you mention and their acquisition costs for their current team:

Adin Hill: 4th/free to retain as UFA
Jacob Markstrom: free as a UFA
Linus Ullmark: free as a UFA

Again it's why I scoff at the idea that you can only get a top goalie via massively paying up in a trade. It is virtually the only position where you can in fact find a top guy without breaking the bank. You can't get a C like that. Even a 2C will cost you boatloads in free agency (see the ridiculous contract asks of Elias Lindholm)

Calgary was willing to offer Elias Lindholm 9 mill a year from age 31-38.

Mercer will cost at most around 6-6.5 mill AAV from age 22-29.

Personally I'd much rather have mercer over that time frame straight up, not even including the 24 million dollars you'd save

I don't think you get Mercer over that time frame because he won't sign all those years to be buried on the depth chart. That's why you should have dealt from a position of strength to address glaring weaknesses.

BTW, why you still here?

[AC]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1766234061159178488

Cry more Fitz. He fumbled this situation hard, pissed off his team, and burned another year off his core's window.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Great. My valuation of Markstrom in that case just went way down on a 34 year old goalie with mediocre GAA and SV% numbers. based on his SV%, GAA, and cap hit, I'm thinking future considerations.

His GSAx is fantastic, but if that doesn't matter I'm sure a guy with SV% and GAA numbers around the 10-20 mark making top 5 money isn't worth much

Up, down, left, right, you making the trade? Because otherwise nobody cares what direction your valuation goes.

Cruised through some of your posts on cap friendly. You’re about as bad at reading the market and evaluating worth as the people you’re accusing the same of here. Weak stuff man, weak.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Brodeur and Fitzpatrick still have Markstrom as their #1 target. As a cost-savings measure, they hire a 10 year old kid to incessantly argue with a portion of the Flames' fan base that Markstrom sucks.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by Southside

I don't think you get Mercer over that time frame because he won't sign all those years to be buried on the depth chart. That's why you should have dealt from a position of strength to address glaring weaknesses.

BTW, why you still here?

Mercer get's 17+ minutes a night. In fact he gets the exact same amount as Yegor Sharangovich. Will yegor also be leaving next year because of a lack of opportunities?

No idea where this narrative that mercer doesn't get ice time comes from

From his draft class only Stutzle, Laffy, and Raymond get more ice time as forwards. Is connor Zary, who's been given significantly less ice time and opportunity than Mercer, about to ask out?

There is no such thing as having too many Cs, and we can and have played him everywhere up and down the lineup to get value.

If we can extract full value for mercer we will. But NJD isn't going to throw away assets at the most valuable position for the least valued position just because we have 2 other top Cs

[Southside]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Mercer get's 17+ minutes a night. In fact he gets the exact same amount as Yegor Sharangovich. Will yegor also be leaving next year because of a lack of opportunities?

No idea where this narrative that mercer doesn't get ice time comes from

From his draft class only Stutzle, Laffy, and Raymond get more ice time as forwards. Is connor Zary, who's been given significantly less ice time and opportunity than Mercer, about to ask out?

There is no such thing as having too many Cs, and we can and have played him everywhere up and down the lineup to get value.

If we can extract full value for mercer we will. But NJD isn't going to throw away assets at the most valuable position for the least valued position just because we have 2 other top Cs

Enjoy the playoffs! Oh, nevermind.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by AC

https://twitter.com/user/status/1766234061159178488

Cry more Fitz. He fumbled this situation hard, pissed off his team, and burned another year off his core's window.

Did we asked for Hughes and Nemec? I thought we were asking for a 40 point a year right winger.

[Roof-Daddy]

Fitz sounds like a sad little kijiji shopper who tried to lowball somebody for their valuable item and cried foul when they wouldn't cave to his hissy fits.

I'm glad he's not running my team.