2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Phil Russell

Pages and pages of "I think what happened was . . ." speculation serving to support whatever perspective you prefer, but mostly to support the view that this team will never rebuild and mostly F's everything up. I prefer to stay focused on the actions because those are things we know happened. The team is selling off its UFA's for futures. They are rebuilding or retooling or whatever term you prefer, and as a HUGE bonus the team on the ice is fun to watch. I am happy.

Totally, and it’s a bit surreal. Conroy said what he was going to do, he’s done what he said he’s going to do, and there are actual examples of him being able to do whatever he needs to do (trading the #1 center, retaining on Tanev) that should dispel any question over it… but all it takes is one talking head saying “I think” and people instantly ignore everything that’s actually happened and go back to the whole “mushy middle! no direction! owner meddling!” thing.

The team is re-whatevering (which is what a lot of people wanted) and they are fun to watch and still competitive (which is what the rest wanted). Literally everybody should be happy with this season so far… but it’s like people look for reasons to complain.

[Lanny_McDonald]

It was obvious they took this to Markstrom. The guy said he was almost 100% certain he was staying in New Jersey during that road trip. That would indicate Conroy came to him to get his signature to waive and make the deal. What happened after that, and we aren't sure, but it obviously pissed off the player. Will it mean the relationship is poisoned and they have to move him? We don't know. What we do know is the market for goaltenders will open up in the summer, allowing for more teams to enter the mix, but also have many more goaltenders available to all teams. IMO, if you have a deal on the table of Holtz and a pick (1st or 2nd or 3rd) and a dump of one of the Devils' goaltenders, you make that trade immediately. You're not going to get better than that IMO. That is an unheard of return for a goaltender. Take it and run before New Jersey realizes they are trading for 34 year old.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Here is the exact wording by Friedman on the podcast:
"by the way, I'll also say this, I know a lot of people, including myself believe the deal fell apart over retention or what Calgary considered the proper price over retention. On Saturday, someone else said to me that they heard that it wasn't even that, so much as Calgary just saw how Markstrom was going and how the team was starting to go and they just said look we can make the playoffs and we're not doing this. So there's a second reason that this may have fallen apart."

Oh, so Friedman heard something from someone who heard something. Was Friedman in line at the Orange Julius?

[scobel]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Because it has been brought up a couple times, I’m actually coming around to the idea of keeping Markstrom and packaging Wolf to move up in the 1st round (or trading Markstrom as well and running with Vladar+ a free agent). Of course it depends on where the Flames are slotted to draft and who would be available with the pick they’re after, but I dunno… I feel like it’s easier to find a #1 goaltender somewhere after the 1st round than a #1 center.

I don’t think they would even consider it. But I would.

I don't know if Ottawa would want a bit of a unproven goalie going into next year despite the potential in Wolf.

I wonder if Ottawa would look at acquiring Markstrom at the draft, they are at that point where it seems like playoff or bust for them next season. Maybe Markstrom+ Vancouver 1st round pick for Ottawa 1st round pick and 3rd round pick.

[stemit14]

As with any rebuild, the speed and success will be dependent on developing enough of these draft picks and prospects into impact NHL players in a timely fashion. 2027 is a very fast rebuild by most standards but you never know… Conroy could pull it off. A lot of the flames’ current success can be attributed to 3 things:

1. Markstrom having a great year where he is a likely Vezina candidate if they make the playoffs.
2. Kadri and Backlund outplaying the opposing centres of other teams on a nightly basis. Both of them are not looking like they are on the back nine of their career at all. It’s very impressive.
3. Defensive depth and scoring from the back end. The flames may be at the tipping point with this one but Kyllington looks more and more like his old self every game so that is making up for the loss of Tanev.

Looking at that list… the flames biggest contributors to their success this year are Markstrom (34 years old), Kadri (33 years old), Backlund (34 years old) and their defensive core (two of their top four will be gone by Friday) IMO. For the flames to be competitive again as early as 2027, that means they have 3-4 years to replace the defensive depth, establish Wolf (or some other goalie) as an NHL starter and they’ll have to replace their top two centers. Not saying Backlund and Kadri won’t still be here by then… just that the flames likely cannot be depending on both of them to be their #1 and #2 centres in 3-4 years.

Developing or acquiring two young top 2 centres in the NHL can be tough. Very hard to trade for (as we have seen from the Devils negotiations) and difficult to draft without a top 10 pick. Even then, unless they are an elite prospect usually taken in the top 2-3 spots of the draft, it usually takes at least 4 years to develop a prospect into being an impact top two centre in the NHL. If Zary is still going to be shifted back to centre, there’s a chance he could be one of them but I think they desperately need to start drafting and developing a #1 centre from either this draft or next years draft if they want to make the 2027 season their return to being competitive.

[ForeverFlameFan]

The “rebuild” can go smoothly with our scouts. Plus, we have a pretty good prospect pool as is, and that’s without top 10 picks.

As for the Wolf talks, if some team wants to throw an overpayment offer on him I wouldn’t deem him untouchable. It’s far more important to have more shots at a possible franchise center/d man than a possible franchise goalie, especially with how scoring is nowadays.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by daveinspruce

Looks to me this team might still be a mess.
Looks like Murray shut down the trade to NJ because he’s delusional about this team and making the playoffs. This clown is a hinderance to our success.
Other point why in the hell are we allowing Hanifin to dictate where the hell he want to go? Him and his agent are handcuffing this team. Connie he should go to who ever decides to give us the best package…
I had high hopes after the trades that have been done but these last two I’m questioning the legitimacy of this management team!

Settle down Dave.

[daveinspruce]

Ok sorry I’m starting to lose it with Sec and his emoji torcher and the rumours and non rumours….IM NOT GOING TO MAKE IT TO FRIDAY GUYS!!! Lol

[2ArmBands]

It will be pretty disappointing if that deal stalled because the Flames thought they could make the playoffs. Very short sighted and I don't think its unfair to speculate that the ownership group wanted to wait and see if they could make it. I mean...this organization has been doing that exact thing for how many years?

The Flames are 7 points out...they are not making the playoffs. I understand last week that gap may have been closer but lets not be delusional here.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I appreciate the poster who put up the whole quote.

That reads to me as Elliot just covering his behind as an insider. He caveats it by saying all of his reporting said the reason was otherwise. He just doesn’t want to be caught out in case it was a possibility he never mentioned.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Personally I feel like a rebuild is rostering a team with a whole lot of meh in front. Like current San Jose or Chicago, or the Flames in 2013-2015. We’re still icing a competitive roster, while also trading pending UFAs who either don’t want to be here or their value is relatively high.

Just because we’ve gained a lot of assets this season doesn’t mean we’re in a full tear down rebuild.

True, but with some of the pieces that Treliving acquired in a desperate attempt to keep the team competitive after Johnny walked he handcuffed the team. There was no feasible way to dump Huberdeau or Kadri. You might get to trade Kadri now with how well he is playing but he's also good for the kids so you want that presence on the team. I think Huberdeau can also be a part of a rebuild. He may have dropped from what he was in Florida but he is slowly rebounding and should also be a good veteran to help guide the young players.

This isn't your typical scorched earth rebuild like Edmonton does. They actually have pieces in place to mentor the young players. Will that work out for the Flames? We'll have to be patient.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

It will be pretty disappointing if that deal stalled because the Flames thought they could make the playoffs. Very short sighted and I don't think its unfair to speculate that the ownership group wanted to wait and see if they could make it. I mean...this organization has been doing that exact thing for how many years?

The Flames are 7 points out...they are not making the playoffs. I understand last week that gap may have been closer but lets not be delusional here.

Agreed. The team has to do this higher draft thing right at some point or another. Prolonging it is just doing things half assed. At some point they’ll have to rip off the bandaid and say we need a high draft pick to make get and develop a substantial franchise player for the future. I don’t blame them right now for wanting playoff revenue, but isn’t this the Calgary Flames way of doing things? If Conroy seen ownership meddling a possibility if they went on a run, he should’ve made these deals earlier to avoid the possibility. He can’t tell the future so I won’t be hard on him but lesson learned that ownership can derail a plan in the future. Also kinda explains why NJ was possibly given a bone for the goodwill with the Dallas deal. I’m not too torn up in a weak draft year but based on principle it’s kinda pissing me off.

[PeteMoss]

Here's the blog (excluding the Kipper stuff)

As for the deadline, the Flames quietly think they are better than they get credit for, and wanted to get to the playoffs to drive someone crazy with Markstrom in goal and Hanifin/Tanev on defence. They made a late pitch to keep Tanev (three years at $4.5M?), but things were too far down the line. Much to the defenceman’s relief, that saga is over. I haven’t watched Artem Grushnikov enough to make an honest assessment, but a few things are clear. First, this is a player Calgary likes and targeted (once Dallas eliminated their top three prospects from conversation). Like Pittsburgh with Guentzel, the Flames valued a slightly older prospect than a 2024 first-rounder, basically choosing two seconds and a conditional pick, rather than a first for Tanev. I’ve heard quite a bit now that teams are not crazy about late first-rounders this June, and this is more confirmation. A couple scouts who know Grushnikov better than I do said his ceiling is a left-handed version of the player they traded — although they made it very clear he needs AHL time and should not be rushed.

Second, even though Tanev doesn’t miss many games, the Flames felt not trading him was walking a tightrope because no one eats pucks like he does. Third, if Edmonton, Toronto or Vancouver was going to get Tanev, they were going to have to blow Dallas out of the water. Things may have changed, but, at one recent time, the Canucks also offered a second and a prospect, while Toronto was offering multiple picks — although the best of them wasn’t in the immediate future. The Oilers were the team that I believe put a first-rounder on the table, but included a contract Calgary didn’t wish to take.

What’s next? Noah Hanifin is locked-in on Tampa Bay, but if that was so easy to do, it would be done already. I don’t believe that’s the only team he’d sign with, but does Calgary get to a point where it says enough is enough and does what it can without his approval? Markstrom’s disappointment is that he felt he should never have been approached about the possibility of a trade if the Flames were going to change their minds and keep him. What shouldn’t be ignored is despite all of the noise, the team is playing hard — including Markstrom. They just beat Winnipeg, Boston, Edmonton, Los Angeles and Pittsburgh. Ryan Huska deserves a lot of credit for getting buy-in after going from assistant coach to head coach on the same team. That’s very, very hard to do. And Oliver Kylington played 20:31 against the Penguins, his highest since returning. Excellent to see.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...deadline-week/

[PeteMoss]

Bonus sections:

New Jersey Devils: According to several sources, the Devils have not surrendered on Jacob Markstrom. If he is not traded to them this week, they will try again this summer. They’ve decided he is their target in goal. I’m also not convinced Tyler Toffoli is going anywhere. The price is high, and negotiations continue. It’s poker, so we will see where we are in a few days, but the Devils like him, and I don’t think they wish to easily give up their playoff pursuit, no matter how tough their trip through southern California was. In addition to a goaltender with term, they have to be considering a defender too, but those are very hard to find. They’ve dangled Alexander Holtz, but resisted Dawson Mercer.

Tampa Bay Lightning: I do believe the Lightning are as interested in Hanifin as he is interested in them, and are looking for defensive help anyway because Mikhail Sergachev is out. When I was younger, I loved a boxer named Marvellous Marvin Hagler. In 1986, he fought an undefeated John Mugabi, who won 24 of his first 25 fights by knockout or technical knockout. Hagler knocked him out, and I remember when Mugabi was staggered and backing up, the commentators saying, “We’ve never seen him like this.” That’s why I find it hard to feel Tampa’s pulse.

Julien BriseBois has never been GM during a time the Lightning had to consider retreat. They’re still full of future Hall-of-Famers to be discounted at your peril, but they look more vulnerable than they have in a decade. They don’t have high picks or too many coveted prospects. That’s a factor in the Hanifin conversations.

Other teams mentioned with Hanifin in the blog: Washington, Toronto, Boston, Florida.

Here is the Florida mention:

They’ve got cap space, but don’t have draft capital. The Panthers have been asked about Anton Lundell, and when you can win, you are forced to consider these things. I get mixed responses to Hanifin, with some sources saying definite interest, but others saying it won’t happen and they’ll chase defensive depth instead. So, I’m not much help there.

[Jiggy_12]

So, Most of the smoke around the Marky deal was around Feb 15th/16th.

Flames lost Feb 12th, Feb 15th (6-3 to the Sharks!) and Feb 17th (5-0!) to make for a 3 game losing streak right at the height of the Markstrom smoke.

Elliotte is completely out to lunch on this one.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by traptor

That's part of the new roadmap conroy has.

He's stated and shown two pillars in his plan to support staying competitive.

-asset management (sogn or trade, don't lose assets for nothing) *why he sold the UFAs
-get younger

But is this re-tooling or re-building?!?! WE MUST KNOW!!!

[Nelson]

Thanks, PeteMoss.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yeah Elliote is a good insider but he has a lot of blame to take in this, and also just the way he talks.

I wonder and I think. Why not just state the facts of what you know without that.

It all started with him first saying talks broke down over retention, he never went into detail and everyone freaked out that it was Edwards who held the trade back and the Flames are cheap and suck. New Jersey was upset.

He comes back finally gives more details and said that the Flames would retain but they can't find compensation on what retention costs. He said teams have charts but it is for 1 year and 2 years was hard to pin down and the Flames maybe he asking for a bit.

Now he says on Saturday we upset Markstrom, and kept him because he was playing well not because of playoffs. Today its because we changed course and wanted to sign everyone and keep him now and make the playoffs.

The playoff piece makes zero sense because they are saying Markstrom felt he would have stayed in the east, and we just traded Lindholm and lost a bunch of games prior to that.

This whole saga will have a book about it one day.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

So, Most of the smoke around the Marky deal was around Feb 15th/16th.

Flames lost Feb 12th, Feb 15th (6-3 to the Sharks!) and Feb 17th (5-0!) to make for a 3 game losing streak right at the height of the Markstrom smoke.

Elliotte is completely out to lunch on this one.

He certainly can be but just based on that it doesn’t mean he’s out to lunch. In this case the fingers seem to be pointing to ownership intervention. Would that at all be surprising?

[Bingo]

I'm neither in the Friedman is gospel or full of dung camps.

I believe him for the most part, but even that doesn't make things true. Someone tells him something and he takes forward, but we don't know the quality of the contact or the depth of the information.

They all fill in the blanks, some more than others.