[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This makes no sense.

Because there are multiple variables that go into ranking. They aren't ranked just on likelihood of being an NHLer, they are ranked based on things like upside, toolset, where they were drafted, how shiny and new they are, how they are performing currently, etc. It's a popularity contest, with no set parameters.

One player (like Grushnikov) could be an almost certain NHLer, but not have sexy tools, and another player who is putting up points in lower leagues, and gets on highlight reels might get ranked higher, even though the former is far more likely to make it.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Dallas got the best player so of course its a slam dunk A+ for their playoff push.

Nothing is going to push this trade in the flames favor sadly, the prospect is underwhelming across the board so its going to look bad for the flames. Just hope that he can amount to something positive in the next few years, its early so no sense in judgement at this point.

[IMG][/IMG]

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Where guys rank isn't what matters. What matters is having more fish in the pond so you are more likely pull out some trophies.

Here's how the Oilers do it.

[AC]

For those curious, here is how a 3 way trade actually goes down via 3 separate transactions:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1763014905312030961

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd say that any of us who believe that this Flames organization needs to be built from the ground up through the draft should be happy with the return. It's future-oriented, and gives Conroy the ability to do exactly what is needed for this market.

Draft. Develop. Prosper.

There are no shortcuts to success in the NHL (...unless you're one of the top-5 markets in the league). Drafting and developing your own players is the hard work required to build a contender.

Totally agree, and its very exciting to see Conroy actually implementing this type of strategy, because I think its the only thing that might actually make the team strong in the long run.

The only thing missing is maybe the real high end blue chip picks and prospects -- something that can generally only be acquired through some period of losing. Hopefully that starts now. I suspect next season won't be great, so possibly some of those types of picks will be coming.

[D as in David]

At the 2021 NHL Entry Draft, the Dallas Stars - acknowledged in a few places to be an excellent drafting team - had two consecutive picks, #47 and #48. With the 47th, they selected Stankoven, with the absolute understanding they have the very next pick allowing them to pick another player which they likely valued somewhat similarly since they could have picked them in reverse order knowing that they would get both players that they wanted at that place in the draft. *(my apologies for the structure of this sentence - oof)

Of course, you need to take into account their development since then. The player who was drafted for potential as an offensive player has shown their potential to be an offensive player with excellent stats in that area. The player who was drafted for their defensive capabilities hasn't put up offensive stats - go figure. Is Grushnikov showing good development as a defensive D-man? That is what needs to be determined which is very difficult to know from looking at counting stats.

BTW, the Stars had seven more picks that year after also having picked Wyatt Johnston in the 1st round. I have no idea how those other seven picks project but the Flames are only one pick short of ten in 2024.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Because there are multiple variables that go into ranking. They aren't ranked just on likelihood of being an NHLer, they are ranked based on things like upside, toolset, where they were drafted, how shiny and new they are, how they are performing currently, etc. It's a popularity contest, with no set parameters.

One player (like Grushnikov) could be an almost certain NHLer, but not have sexy tools, and another player who is putting up points in lower leagues, and gets on highlight reels might get ranked higher, even though the former is far more likely to make it.

Ok well that makes more sense but isn't what you were saying earlier.

I'm just going by that article by Wheeler written three weeks ago, since nobody here has any better information about Dallas' prospects. He himself says he emphasizes skill and upside in his rankings and according to him Grushnikov's solid defending could carry him to be a 6/7. Those guys hit waivers every year so to me, he's a throw in at this point.

[scobel]

I don't mind this trade at all, and I am glad Conroy held true to his words of not walking these guys to free agency. I know everyone was hoping for a 1st, this may have been an option for some teams aka Toronto, what we don't know is if Tanev was willing to waive to go there as they may have been on the no trade list. The teams interested in Tanev was likely big, but combined with the NTC it may have shrunk down quickly.

As for the package, I don't really have strong feeling towards the prospect either way, just look at Tim Erixon, if we received a player like that in the trade we would call it a win, hindsight a bust. With that said if we acquired Marty Pospisil in a trade a few years a ago for Tanev we would have been calling it a terrible trade. I think the 2nd gives us a chance at adding another prospect to the pool.

I am glad we jumped on this when we did as he it seems like walking on tight rope if he was going stay healthy or not. I hope him the best and I feel like he will be a great fit in Dallas, and I hope they get to the cup final.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Athletic article that weighted draft success by available draft capital had the Flames in the top 5 for draft success.

2nd best in fact. 2nd to Dallas.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by AC

For those curious, here is how a 3 way trade actually goes down via 3 separate transactions:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1763014905312030961

ricardow wondering why 100% of Tanev's salary wasn't retained.

[heep223]

Conroy did what he could. The main part is that he got decent tickets back for an old, pending free agent. There's only so much you can do selling into a rental market with a player like this.

I honestly see little difference in a late 1st rounder and late 2nd rounder in the coming draft. Lottery tickets

[Reggie Dunlop]

Wait a minute.... the Flames let COLE BRADY slip from their fingers????!!1

[tony-soprano]

Flames legend Cole Brady.

[Tbull8]

Watch Brady turn into a Hall of Famer

[D as in David]

Missed opportunity for the start of our own Brady Bunch along with Brady Lyle.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Ok well that makes more sense but isn't what you were saying earlier.

I'm just going by that article by Wheeler written three weeks ago, since nobody here has any better information about Dallas' prospects. He himself says he emphasizes skill and upside in his rankings and according to him Grushnikov's solid defending could carry him to be a 6/7. Those guys hit waivers every year so to me, he's a throw in at this point.

Literally one person's opinion.

Craig Conroy...who is an GM in the league unlike Scott Wheeler seems very happy with the prospect and see's his upside as a defensive d-man.

He clearly isn't a "throw-in" as you say.

Is he a blue chip prospect that is going to be a sure thing NHLer? No he's not, but there is a big gap between that and a "throw in".

He could never play an NHL game, he could be a 6/7, or he could be a middle pairing d-man in the mould of a Tanev, Manson, or Cernak, none of those guys had remarkable point production in junior or the AHL either.

It actually reminds me of when Cernak was traded to Tampa from LA.

"Spare Parts"
"Nothing of real value"

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...=Bishop&page=3

Cernak now has two Stanley Cup rings as a solid top 4 dman for the Lightning to show for it.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Cole Brady is a NCAA free agent in August if he doesn't sign with New Jersey..

[Always Earned Never Given]

Imagine if NJ pulled a fast one and this ended after trade 1... Tanev 50% retained for an unsigned goalie!

[Reggie Dunlop]

Not to be confused with Buddy Cole.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Shazam

25 games of a pending UFA dman.

Yeah, after the POs the Stars will either have a cup and no Tanev, Grushnikov, Brady and 2nd, 3rd and 4th round pick or no cup and none of those assets except the 3rd round pick (unless they lose in the finals in which case they lose that pick also).

The Stars only "win" this trade if they win the cup.