[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[Harpz0012]

I really hope Conroy has faith in our scouts for all of these draft picks. I worry, as Coronoto is ranked 39th in top prospects, which is far below players like Stankoven, who is rated 6th right now and drafted after Coronoto. Good luck Flames Scouts.

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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

My guess is the Flames really want Grubnikov


Otherwise the 2nd is guaranteed from someone

My guess is he was the best prospect (in their view) offered to them in addition to the 2nd round pick.

How much the "wanted" him is anyone's guess.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Harpz0012

I really hope Conroy has faith in our scouts for all of these draft picks. I worry, as Coronoto is ranked 39th in top prospects, which is far below players like Stankoven, who is rated 6th right now and drafted after Coronoto. Good luck Flames Scouts.

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All teams missed Stankoven, it's just that Dallas didn't make that mistake twice.

Calgary has drafted quite well, but every team misses, it's not an exact science.

[Saqe]

Grushnikov seems to have been pretty low on Dallas' prospect rankings, highest that I found was 10th in the Athletic. Seems like a throw in more than anything.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Boumsalot

That man has no god damn teeth and the best we can do is a 2nd and c prospect.

He’s gotta be in the top percentile of players likely to get hurt in any given game. We got a couple pieces for him, instead of having him walk.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Boumsalot

The conditions on the 3rd make this a win for Dallas imo.

How so?

Two possible outcomes:

1) the Stars don't make the finals -> Calgary gets Grushnikov + 2nd and the Stars get nothing out of it

2) the Stars make the finals and Calgary gets Grushnikov 2nd + 3rd and the Stars get what they wanted.

Dallas only 'wins' if Calgary gets the 3rd

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I don’t see any view point other than it’s a clear win for both teams.

It's kind of funny right...

Because if it's a 1st + Grushnikov it would been labelled as a fleecing by Conroy for a 34 year old rental.

But then a 2nd + Grushnikov is being labeled as a fleecing by Dallas for the piece they needed.

So I guess maybe people thought that a 1st round pick with no prospect would have been the "fair" return. But really the difference is kind of slim between all three scenarios.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Niemo

I’m fine with the return. Obviously no one was offering a 1st since we’ve already waited a month+.

Onto Markstrom and Hanifin where I would expect 1st rounders.

This 100%.

Offer: 1st round pick
Bid: 2nd round pick

Timeline: 5 weeks

Result: Somewhere between a 1st and 2nd round pick.

Sort of landed in the expected space didn't it?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Grushnikov seems to have been pretty low on Dallas' prospect rankings, highest that I found was 10th in the Athletic. Seems like a throw in more than anything.

I currently have Suniev 10th on Calgary's list - pretty good prospect

Grushnikov probably slots into our list 1 or 2 below Suniev, in the 11 or 12 range. Maybe a little higher.

[CFO]

Everything I read on the prospect says the same - physical, nasty to play against limited offense but good break out, good transitional skating and very solid defensive game

Sounds like a type of D prospect the Flames are lacking.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I currently have Suniev 10th on Calgary's list - pretty good prospect

Grushnikov probably slots into our list 1 or 2 below Suniev, in the 11 or 12 range. Maybe a little higher.

Most teams are lucky to have 2-3 prospects with a high probability making a nhl career. You don't expect 10 guys graduating from the minors into your squad.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

All teams missed Stankoven, it's just that Dallas didn't make that mistake twice.

Calgary has drafted quite well, but every team misses, it's not an exact science.

I think the Flames have drafted about average and that's not a slight as it's better than a lot of teams and a lot of teams ahead of them have been drafting in the top 10 regularly. The organization has a lot of good prospects but no blue chip prospects and a lot of that has to do with drafting in the teens and twenties as well as far too many picks traded by the previous GM. That said teams like Dallas have been able to draft blue chip players with later 1s round and 2nd round. Maybe they are the exception but if a team isn't going to commit to a proper rebuild, then their scouting needs to be amongst the tops in the league and I'm not sure the Flames are there.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How so?

Two possible outcomes:

1) the Stars don't make the finals -> Calgary gets Grushnikov + 2nd and the Stars get nothing out of it

2) the Stars make the finals and Calgary gets Grushnikov 2nd + 3rd and the Stars get what they wanted.

Dallas only 'wins' if Calgary gets the 3rd

Why does Dallas get nothing? What's to say they can't re-sign Tanev?

[Flames1217]

So after reading everyone's comments is it fair to say that Grush is very similar to Kuznetsov?

[RyZ]

Not much here but Scott Bakula (sp?) was just on the FAN talking about the trade and he said he slots Grushnikov ahead of the Kuznetsov/Solovyov duo of Russian Dmen that the Flames currently have.
He also mentioned that he thinks of him as a potential 4-5 at the NHL level.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CFO

Everything I read on the prospect says the same - physical, nasty to play against limited offense but good break out, good transitional skating and very solid defensive game

Sounds like a type of D prospect the Flames are lacking.

I also read that his ceiling is a 6/7 dman.

Although I expect he has a pretty good chance of hitting that ceiling. He seems like he'll me an NHL player of sorts.

Most of the Flames prospect dmen seem hit or miss types. But with higher ceilings. Nice to have a safer guy, even with a low ceiling.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

How so?

Two possible outcomes:

1) the Stars don't make the finals -> Calgary gets Grushnikov + 2nd and the Stars get nothing out of it

2) the Stars make the finals and Calgary gets Grushnikov 2nd + 3rd and the Stars get what they wanted.

Dallas only 'wins' if Calgary gets the 3rd

I think he means that the trade is very likely Tanev for a 2nd and a prospsect, as the liklihood of the 3rd going is very slim.

By definition, pretty much all deadline deals are bad for the team getting the rental, as the odds of winning the cup is always very low.

He's talking simply about the acquisition cost.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Ped

Why does Dallas get nothing? What's to say they can't re-sign Tanev?

That's another factor in comparing this to the Manson trade. Manson was 30 when he was traded, if Colorado keeps him, it's a 30 year old player that they likely expect to be a top 4 guy for multiple seasons. You keep Tanev past this year and he's 35 before the end of this calendar year. So sure they could re-up him, but the long term upside of that is not the same as it would be for a younger player.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Most teams are lucky to have 2-3 prospects with a high probability making a nhl career. You don't expect 10 guys graduating from the minors into your squad.

No, but where they rank is irrelevant.

Pospisil was ranked 21st last year,
In 2019 Wolf was ranked 18th
In 2017 Ruzicka 22nd
In 2016 Mangiapane was 9th and Hathaway 20th
In 2015 Kylington was 10th
In 2014 Ferland was 14th

Where guys rank isn't what matters. What matters is having more fish in the pond so you are more likely pull out some trophies.

The fact that Grushnikov will probably be in the 10-12 range for the Flames isn't an insult to him, it's a reflection that the Flames have built a pretty decent, and growing, prospect pool. If 3 or 4 of them make the team that's pretty good.

But then consider:
Zary, Pelletier and Pospisil already have
Wolf and Coronato are just a matter of time
Kuznetsov, Solovyov and Schwindt have all had a taste and all have a (small) chance
And you still have Honzek Morin, Brzustewicz, Suniev, Poirier and Grushnikov as prospects with a good to great chance.
Plus any out-of-nowhere posiibilities from down the list

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Most teams are lucky to have 2-3 prospects with a high probability making a nhl career. You don't expect 10 guys graduating from the minors into your squad.

The more chances you have the better opportunity to actually hit on those players though.

And think you're actually downplaying how many guys graduate, Flames have graduated Zary, Pospisil, and Pelletier in the last year alone. Could add Duehr to that too.