[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[browna]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

that may be old - Capfriendly has him at 198 lbs

So, similar size. And styles?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Crazy no GM wanted to pay a first. Healthy Tanev for the last part of the season and playoffs I feel is worth that. Seems GMs are being more stingy with draft pics.

It seems Conroy is slotting for the future finding a very defence first dman to play with the other D prospects who might benefit playing with that type of player. He also gets this trade out of the way so he can focus on Hanifin and any other business.

A defensive dman at his age, it doesn't surprise me too much that no one gave up a 1st. But I expected the flames to get a better prospect or a guatanteed secondary pick when they did settle on a 2nd, especially if you're taking a pick that late, around the 60th slot. surprised they didnt wait. But like I said earlier... at least the flames are making these moves, building up draft capital. Should get one good prospect with that pick.

Maybe it could also allow them to move up a couple slots in the 1st if the team keep trending towards classic flames just miss the playoffs and get a crappy pick territory

[topfiverecords]

Next layer of grading on this trade can be done in comparison to what other returns D get before the deadline. Other than for Hanifin, if some other team gets a first for a defenseman this place will fold in on itself.

[dammage79]

My read on why Grushnikov was interesting was all the reports of his defending but he also moves the puck out of the zone very very well. He moves reads plays well and moves things up the ice.

Less time in the D zone = less time you have to defend.

I see and understand the appeal and that's the way they want to build this new roster out tailored to a quick transition game.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

Huh, they retained 50%

Ah ok

The title of the thread, just said 75% via NJ

Thanks for clarifying

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

But you don't know what was available, as Jiri pointed out the market needs, dictates what is being offered. Conroy likely went back to all the GM's to see if they had a better offer until the best one that was there.

Let's say you lived in a small town and they only had one car dealership, you're likely going to pick from what's available. Maybe your selection is limited because of what you can afford.. Conroy has to take the best deal that the market offier's him. There was not a lot of time left plus you don't want your defenseman getting injured. Conway and staff field we got a really good player, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and just see what happens.

The Flames obviously took the best offer they felt was available. But they didn't have to take any offer for 8 days. The Flames control the D market this year. There was minimal pressure to be the first party to swerve.

I think its as simple as Conroy and team like the prospect and didn't feel they had to hold out for another deal. Hopefully they are right.

[AC]

Grushnikov is an interesting target if the Flames really liked him. Not only do I have a lot more faith in this Flames management's scouting, but Dallas also has a fantastic drafting track record in recent years and they chose him pretty high initially (the immediate pick after Stankoven).

[TheScorpion]

Devil's advocate — if Dallas is willing to cut bait with Grushnikov without seeing him in the NHL, they might not be thrilled with what they think they had.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by browna

I think part of the D grade is for the fact that Flames didn't wait for or push the price up by waiting another week...as I've said a few times, I think Dallas would still be there in a week looking at Tanev just as seriously.

I think at some point you tell teams, give me your best offer and you have to pull the trigger.

It's a bit easier when you only have one guy to move to risk waiting until the deadline, but when you're moving 4 or 5 guys this year you need to try to give time for the market to build too. Think that's what Conroy has done by trying to space these trades out.

I think part of doing this now is also going "Okay Tanev is gone, now who wants Hanifin" to try and build a bigger rental market there just in case the sign and trade option doesn't work.

Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, and if Walker or Seeler get moved for a 1st next week then we know he was wrong. But we have to wait and see now.

[browna]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Next layer of grading on this trade can be done in comparison to what other returns D get before the deadline. Other than for Hanifin, if some other team gets a first for a defenseman this place will fold in on itself.

Tanev is plug and play. He had no adjustment period coming to the Flames after 9 years in Vancouver. He won't have any adjustment period going to Dallas or anywhere, and teams know that..you know exactly what you're getting in him on and off the ice.

Even Hanifin, as well as he's playing this year you wonder if going to a new team and system and coaching, if it will take him a while to get acclimated to be able to play his offensive style that he's being acquired for and be effective . Maybe it will take time, maybe not.

That's why I think, for playoff teams looking for that rental, that Tanev was so valuable. Give him a hotel room to stay in the next 3 months, a uniform, and forget about him, he'll do the rest. There are a handful of guys like that around the league, not many are available though.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Devil's advocate — if Dallas is willing to cut bait with Grushnikov without seeing him in the NHL, they might not be thrilled with what they think they had.

Cut bait is strong. Maybe what Conroy said was a sell job but he said Nill wasn't thrilled to add him in the trade

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Another good point to consider is how would the Athletic grade the Toffoli trade now?

As Conroy pointed out the player we got in the Toffoli trade needed more opportunity. Something the Athletic couldn't forsee because they weren't looking at the same things from the perspective the Flames were.

It's useless to go by what the Athletic said because they're merely making an observation without likely having spent any time watching the player.

They wrote an article which kind of was a bit of crow eating.

[dino7c]

honestly complaining about picks being late is pretty dumb to be frank
Like did you expect SJ or Chicago to trade for Tanev?

[Strange Brew]

If no team is willing to trade you a first for Chris Tanev, then not much you can do about it. I really doubt the offers get better in a week.

I'm sure lots of teams were offering a second and a prospect. So the trade really comes down to how well the Flames have evaluated Grushnikov. We will get to see how good of a decision that is.

Also turns out Seravalli was right on the mark.

One thing Conroy was adamant about was how valuable the cap savings were from the Zadorov trade. Still waiting to see that play out (as I don't think those savings were needed for Kuzmenko were they?).

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by dammage79

My read on why Groshnikov was interesting was all the reports of his defending but he also moves the puck out of the zone very very well. He moves reads plays well and moves things up the ice.

Less time in the D zone = less time you have to defend.

I see and understand the appeal and that's the way they want to build this new roster out tailored to a quick transition game.

Conroy also said that Groshnikov compliments the defenseman that like to jump into the rush. So it seems to me that the Flames actually have a plan. Treliving used to go out to get shiny pieces, but Conroy and staff are going after team needs on a long term plan. If this player plays as well as Conroy thinks he does, I bet Huska has no problem slotting him in. He seems to work well with our teams defense.

We are getting a young guy who's probably a faster Tanev and already plays a very strong stay home style.

Conroy has surprised us already with some of his moves I don't know why people are questioning this one so quickly. It's nice to see so many people pretty happy about eating crow lately.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1763022097931276471

To add to this, the 4 outbound guys have an average age of 31 and a combined cap hit of $17.35M (with all looking for raises next year, other than Tanev)

The 5 players coming in have an average age of under 23 and a combined cap hit of $8.6M (plus the league minimum salaries if/when anyone gets called up.

So, along with getting significantly younger, and acquiring a handful of picks to go along with the young players, they have also gained a ####-ton of cap space, which provides opportunity to either acquire more players or use to acquire even more assets.

[dino7c]

You can add Pachal to that list too, he is only 24 and looks like a player to me

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Devil's advocate — if Dallas is willing to cut bait with Grushnikov without seeing him in the NHL, they might not be thrilled with what they think they had.

Flames can say the same thing - if they didn't want to keep Tanev as an internal add, and re-sign him for next year, they might not be thrilled with him any longer.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

This is what a lot of people said when the Flames traded Baertchi for a 2nd - gave him away!

That 2nd (Andersson) has had a fair bit more than 'no impact for the Flames' I would say.

This is the key observation.

It's a message board and we all should have fun with it. But you really can't judge a trade with draft picks in it until you know who those picks are.

Let it play out before getting all hot and bothered about how Conroy left a bunch of free cash on the table.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Conroy also said that Groshnikov compliments the defenseman that like to jump into the rush. So it seems to me that the Flames actually have a plan. Treliving used to go out to get shiny pieces, but Conroy and staff are going after team needs on a long term plan. If this play a place as well as Conroy thinks he does, I bet Huska has no problem slotting him in. He seems to work well with our teams defense.

We are getting a young guy who's probably a faster Tanev and already plays a very strong stay home style.

Conroy has surprised us already with some of his moves I don't know why people are questioning this one so quickly. It's nice to see so many people pretty happy about eating crow lately.

Which makes sense in terms of transition. He hits players in stride quite well. So if he works with a Shilly or a Weegar, they could really move things up fast.