2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Paulie Walnuts]

We aren’t moving to big and fast that’s the issue.

Skating seems to be a constant issue with these new players coming into the league. What you can’t fix is skill. You need skill and hopefully elite skill.

Drafting for size and missing on a more skilled player is a mistake. Big and fast is usually drafted in the top 10.

New Jersey had 3 picks in round 1 in 2020 and took 2 skilled forwards and now are able to dangle 1 in a trade to fix a hole. That’s usually what you can do if you have too many of the same player.

[Niemo]

I’m not worried about Kadri’s contract. If he enjoys the mentoring, he’s an asset that is worth more to the Flames than others would offer. If we assume that we buy out year 7 of the deal (I know we may not), there are 4 years left after this one. Years 3-4 I’m not concerned at all. Year 5 May start underperforming. Year 6 is poor, but it’s ending.

I don’t think Kadri is going anywhere as I am assuming that offers are weak given the cap scare.

[Flamesfan05]

Not sure what they saw in Stromgren

Size? He is 6’2 so just above average but definitely not fast or skilled

[Enoch Root]

It's not an exact science, it's a snapshot in time, when they're 18 years old, and guys are going to look completely different at 20.

They obviously saw something they liked in Stromgren. IIRC, they said they thought he had a lot of raw talent and potential, but it hasn't developed.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

All hindsight. If that was obvious at the draft, he would have gone in the 1st round.

Exactly, same as Gaudreau.

The point is that there is a good deal of uncertainty with how prospects develop, so if you take someone who isn't tall in the first round, why would that influence you at all about who to take in the second-seventh rounds?

If the best players available are all 5'8", then that's what they are. Draft them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Exactly, same as Gaudreau.

The point is that there is a good deal of uncertainty with how prospects develop, so if you take someone who isn't tall in the first round, why would that influence you at all about who to take in the second-seventh rounds?

If the best players available are all 5'8", then that's what they are. Draft them.

But again, it's not an exact science. And the simple fact of the matter is that being 5'8" makes the odds longer for being an NHLer

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by butterfly

What kind of logic is that?

"They're both clearly going to develop into NHL players. And when they do, since it's automatic that it's going to happen, there's no possible way we could augment the team with some cheap big forward."

Just reprehensible. The only way you win at hockey is by having superior goal suppression and goal creation. No one cares how tall your players are.

Ah, geez. I really like this prospect but we already took a Gemini born on a Tuesday in the first round. Who else do we have?

I'm not saying I agree with the logic at all, but I would almost bet NHL teams do.

IIRC there was a draft where Button said as much, he had said we had taken some smaller players lately so wanted to add some size.

I will always maintain you take the best player available no matter what, and that generally you should always draft based on skill first.

[Petert]

Revisionary history.
No mention of Fleury who "thought he was a Flames"?
He only went on to a Cup finals with Vegas.

Elliott was a disaster, period.
Harmonic was a huge overpayment even before he completely turned into a pumpkin with us.
Smith is Smith, decent enough, never is at the level of Fleury nor Bishop while all 3 goalies were still active.

I would have love to see what this team could have done with Fleury or Bishop when Mony JG MT Lindholm were all literally dominating the league.


Anyways, if Jersey is offering Mercer and Holtz and Casey and a 1st, you take the deal and then run away as fast as you can.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by butterfly

What kind of logic is that?

"They're both clearly going to develop into NHL players. And when they do, since it's automatic that it's going to happen, there's no possible way we could augment the team with some cheap big forward."

Just reprehensible. The only way you win at hockey is by having superior goal suppression and goal creation. No one cares how tall your players are.

Ah, geez. I really like this prospect but we already took a Gemini born on a Tuesday in the first round. Who else do we have?

Lol, Stankoven played 6 games in his draft year. Settle down... Reprehensible! Smh

[browna]

Zary wouldnt be doing nearly as well without Kadri and Pospisil this season. Same with these chaps with NJ, there has to be a chemistry and a fit with linemates sure, and everyone can't play with the top players.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But again, it's not an exact science. And the simple fact of the matter is that being 5'8" makes the odds longer for being an NHLer

So if you take one in the first round, you'd better shy away in later rounds? That's foolish.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I'm not saying I agree with the logic at all, but I would almost bet NHL teams do.

IIRC there was a draft where Button said as much, he had said we had taken some smaller players lately so wanted to add some size.

I will always maintain you take the best player available no matter what, and that generally you should always draft based on skill first.

Sorry if that came across as me attacking you; I meant it as an attack on the logic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

So if you take one in the first round, you'd better shy away in later rounds? That's foolish.

You're trying to create an argument that doesn't exist.

I will say this though, if you are lacking size, eventually you have to address it - you can't keep taking smaller players over and over

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're trying to create an argument that doesn't exist.

I will say this though, if you are lacking size, eventually you have to address it - you can't keep taking smaller players over and over

Yeah, you end up with a team of DeBrincat, Caufield, Zuccarello, Stankoven, Gaudreau, Atkinson... I'm sure no one would be interested in trading some big lug for them.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yeah, you end up with a team of DeBrincat, Caufield, Zuccarello, Stankoven, Gaudreau, Atkinson... I'm sure no one would be interested in trading some big lug for them.

Again, you make arguments that have no basis in reality. If you think you can draft that successfully, what are you doing posting on here?

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Again, you make arguments that have no basis in reality. If you think you can draft that successfully, what are you doing posting on here?

I can't draft that successfully.

I'm arguing to take the best player available regardless of height and weight. If your scouting staff loves a player, it is mind numbingly foolish to pass them over "because we already took a small player last round".

[Sandman]

If you have a team full of Ewoks, you will get steamrolled, especially in the playoffs. Whether some fans like it or not, hockey is a contact sport, with 50/50 battles in all 3 zones. As long as it remains a contact sport, size will always be important- and NHL GM’s think like me. Skill and speed are still the most important traits, but you need size too.

Every draft, the small guys fall, and the big guys rise. Every trade deadline, teams are looking for size and physicality, see Tanner Jeannot, Barclay Goodrow,etc. How many guys are in the league that are Stankoven’s size? Not that many.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Yeah, you end up with a team of DeBrincat, Caufield, Zuccarello, Stankoven, Gaudreau, Atkinson... I'm sure no one would be interested in trading some big lug for them.

Like it or not, that team gets killed.

[stemit14]

I even think it’s worth the risk in taking players that excel in junior but your scouts have concerns about them transitioning their production to the NHL… whether it’s because of size or foot speed, etc. you can always look at that player as one that has a good chance to appreciate in value for at least a couple years and it could turn into a valuable trade piece to get other players.

A great example is Casey with the Devils… he is a valuable prospect right now that could be used as a big piece to make a trade for a top 5 goaltender. Who knows if his game will transition to the NHL with him being a smaller defenceman… but either way, he is a player drafted with the understanding that he is a high risk/high reward player that would likely increase in value at least until he reaches the AHL/NHL. He may excel at the NHL level as well but at least he is an appreciating asset for the years leading up to it. A guy like Stromgren was likely not to do that as he was never a high-offence player even before being drafted.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by butterfly

What kind of logic is that?

"They're both clearly going to develop into NHL players. And when they do, since it's automatic that it's going to happen, there's no possible way we could augment the team with some cheap big forward."

Just reprehensible. The only way you win at hockey is by having superior goal suppression and goal creation. No one cares how tall your players are.

Ah, geez. I really like this prospect but we already took a Gemini born on a Tuesday in the first round. Who else do we have?

Do you realize that is just another poster speculating that's why the Flames made the choice they did? Some other poster's thought of what happened is enough to get you on the "Flames are reprehensible" train?