Suppose it comes down to what the Flames feel is the future of Connor Zary. If you project him as a center then you could probably go for Holtz assuming you project Holtz as more than a 20 goal guy on the wing. If not then you are in no rush to trade Markstrom for a position it appears the Flames may have depth at. (Wings)
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Originally Posted by TheScorpion
I don't know if you necessarily need to account for Zary's position anyway because ideally, even if he's a centre, you're probably looking at trying to draft a blue-chip centre to push Zary down into the 2 spot. And that's not intended as a knock on Zary at all.
You need 3 strong Cs, and the Flames have none under 30. The draft is obviously the standard source, but that years away (especially when you realize you need more than one).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
Take who your scouts think will be the better player. I wouldn't worry about position at this point. Zary has had a strong rookie year but I wouldn't be automatically penciling him just yet.
Normally I would agree, but the Flames have a solid bench (7 or 8 deep) of wingers under 25, and zero centers. There comes a time when you start looking for balance. And it's not like they would be sacrificing talent to go with the C.
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Flames scouts have been pretty good recently but not sure how they missed him when they theoretically had scouted him the entire year befor when they were looking at Zary. That entire draft class in 2021 outside of Coronato and Beck they took big players with limited offensive skill. It was certainly a deviation from their drafting record in terms of size and skillset in the previous drafts.
I think the answer is in your question.
They took a smaller forward in Coronato with their first round pick, and didn't want to take another smaller forward in Stankoven with their second pick.
Also Stankoven only played 6 games in his draft year which probably made the size tougher to overlook, he wasn't a prolific point producer yet.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 02-26-2024 at 08:28 PM.
You have it Backwards, Flames want Lundell for Hanifin. If the Panthers were sluffing him off , the deal would be done by now. The Panthers do not want to give him up. Thing is, they don't really have any more assets to package up to equate to the Flames asking price.
You answered your own point here. They may not want to give him up, but they want Hanifin. You have to pay to get, and if it isn't uncomfortable for both sides, it wasn't a good negotiation.
Flames scouts have been pretty good recently but not sure how they missed him when they theoretically had scouted him the entire year befor when they were looking at Zary. That entire draft class in 2021 outside of Coronato and Beck they took big players with limited offensive skill. It was certainly a deviation from their drafting record in terms of size and skillset in the previous drafts.
And we went all big in 2023 when there were guys like ASP, perrault and crystall. Hopefully it works out better then it has in the past.
I think that is pretty fair for en extended Hanifin and a #1 Vezina calibre goalie locked in for a little over $3M a year. Vanecek is a pure dump, he is a solid backup but he is never a guy that is going to win you a Cup. I could even forego the 1st in my mind to make it happen.
Holtz
Mercer
Casey
Vanecek
Markstrom (50% retained)
Hanifin (8 year extension)
That seems like pretty fair value.
Calgary retains AND eats a salary? That's exactly why this deal won't go down. It will be one or the other. Plus, a team giving up three of their best prospects in a deal, two of which are already playing for the NHL club? Just doesn't seem remotely possible. When you bring in those big ticket contracts you need those producing entry level contracts to balance the salary structure.
I can see one of those young players and a 1st rounder for Markstrom with retention. That would be a fantastic return for a goaltender. Adding Hanifin? I don't see how that works for New Jersey from the salary structure. That's a lot of big salary numbers in 10 players. If the Flames deal with the Devils I think it's going to be for Markstrom and a minor player to fill a role. Flames will get the best return and shop their other assets elsewhere and get the best returns possible. Throwing them together in deals limits the return IMO. Would be a bad move trading the players that way.
You answered your own point here. They may not want to give him up, but they want Hanifin. You have to pay to get, and if it isn't uncomfortable for both sides, it wasn't a good negotiation.
IF they want Hanifin that bad.
If I'm them I'd prioritize re-signing reinhart, forsling and montour.
After that they have about 7-10 million in cap space for 9 roster spots.
Hanifin is going to cost 1-2 millioncmore then forsling or mountour, cost them lundell, make an already tenuous cap structure more difficult and disruot a winning formula.
Sucks that the flames did not use their 2nd round pick on Stankoven in that draft. It is frustrating sometimes when GM’s and/or scouting staff just can’t seem to get out of their own way. This isn’t directed completely at the flames as lots of teams passed over Stankoven when they had their chance. I just remember that he was by far my favourite option for that 2nd round pick of that draft. Don’t know why so many teams prefer “safe” picks once you are past the 1st round. I always think it’s better to swing for the fences with those picks especially. Safe picks that turn into 3rd/4th line players or 5th/6th defencemen can usually easily be acquired through free agency or trade. Players with top 6 offensive skills or offensively-gifted defensemen are tough to get and should be the target of virtually every pick outside the first round. That’s not to say teams should not try to get those guys in the first round - of course they should. Just that you should pick guys with very high offensive ceilings even if they have warts in their game that could turn them into duds. A guy like Stankoven is a perfect example… scouts and GMs got too hung up on his size instead of focusing on his skill and the points he was putting up. I think it’s worth taking the risk with most players.
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They took a smaller forward in Coronato with their first round pick, and didn't want to take another smaller forward in Stankoven with their second pick.
What kind of logic is that?
"They're both clearly going to develop into NHL players. And when they do, since it's automatic that it's going to happen, there's no possible way we could augment the team with some cheap big forward."
Just reprehensible. The only way you win at hockey is by having superior goal suppression and goal creation. No one cares how tall your players are.
Ah, geez. I really like this prospect but we already took a Gemini born on a Tuesday in the first round. Who else do we have?
"They're both clearly going to develop into NHL players. And when they do, since it's automatic that it's going to happen, there's no possible way we could augment the team with some cheap big forward."
Just reprehensible. The only way you win at hockey is by having superior goal suppression and goal creation. No one cares how tall your players are.
Ah, geez. I really like this prospect but we already took a Gemini born on a Tuesday in the first round. Who else do we have?
All hindsight. If that was obvious at the draft, he would have gone in the 1st round.
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I love to hear that, honestly. His contract is what it is, but the chemistry he has with Zary and Pospisil, you can see he's good for them and they're good for him and with the team moving in a younger direction on most fronts, let's keep those two learning from Kadri for a few years as they continue to establish themselves as consistent NHLers. The strides the two kids have made this year already has been astounding, and Kadri's done a great job working with them.
Kadri is on pace for 72 points. Even using the bare minimum $1 million per 10 points, he's playing as a $7.2 million player. Bring in other intangibles, and his contract is what is it is, an incredibly fair market value contract with a player that I personally know loves it here. He will be a fantastic player for the duration of his contract IMO.
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