2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If the rumor of Holtz or Mercer + prospects and picks is true then that’s good enough for me.

Of course if Conroy got offered #### then do not do it and the rumors are wrong and Markstrom has no value

Holy crap man things aren't that binary.
Either those deals are right or he has no value?
Really those are the only possibilities?
Maybe he has value, but the two teams can't agree on the value of retention. That seems to be where its at.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The flip side is that you can't be so aggressive on your ask that you miss a good deal. Holtz + picks (especially if it is a 1st) + prospects is a historically strong return. So value is already maximized on Markstrom.

Sounds like the hang up is over retention and this one is a little grey but the cap crunch is alleviating somewhat this summer but I don't think it is as simple as Monahan cost a 1st to dump so the Devils have to pay equivalent.

I don't think any team will pay more in the summer when they lose Markstrom for a playoff run and more options open up. The balance of maximizing value for the player and cap space has to be balanced against realistic returns if New Jersey goes and trades for Saros.

Are the Flames in a better spot in their current state with Holtz + a 1st/2nd or Markstrom? I am taking the return for Markstrom.

No, value is not maximized, simply because it would be a good return historically. Values rise and fall. If you don't extract a maximum return, based on current market conditions, you aren't maximizing value.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Maybe the Flames do view Holtz plus 1st and whatever for Markstrom as fair value, but are pushing for Mercer to see if Jersey blinks first as they are under pressure.

The only one losing out right now is New Jersey as they need a goalie.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I think people need to realize we hold the hammer here as well. We have the asset, we have the retention spot. You don't just give it away.

We don't have to trade Markstrom, I am sure they are happy keeping him.

Flames hold the hammer specifically with Markstrom but there are alternatives and potentially more coming in the summer. Fleury and Saros this deadline. In the summer there is a bunch of stop gap UFAs and then maybe one of Ullmark or Swayman becomes available.
My biggest issue is honestly if they are happy keeping him. This would be the first time the Flames have proactively traded a player with term to help with a rebuild/retool. Keeping Markstrom is a lose/lose proposition to me. His value either slides off a poor year or he keeps them in a higher spot than they should be.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

If retention is the issue, why don’t we just take back Vanacek in lieu of retention? Is this too easy of a fix to make a deal work?

Each of these things has a cost.

Taking on Vanacek has a cost because it means the Flames have to take on his salary and cap hit while he is a struggling (or injured) player and we are unable to graduate Wolf while both Vanacek and Vladar are healthy. The Devils should have to pay extra to make that our problem.

Retention of Markstrom's salary, which costs not just money, but one of the retention slots that the team has available. The retention slot is almost as valuable as the money being retained because it eliminates options on future trades. (But the money and cap space also have significant value).

Retaining on Markstrom's contract means that we can still retain on Hanifin and Tanev for this year and make all 3 trades, but no others. Then next year Markstrom's retain still consumes one of 3 retention slots so we can only retain in 2 trades (ie. Mangiapane and Kuzmenko?) but not a third one (ie. Sharangovich or some future UFA). And then the year after that we have the same limitation of only having 2/3 retention slots.

If the timeline is to have this team ready to compete for 2027 then those retention slots are valuable levers for gaining assets over the next few years and you do not want to give 3 of 9 retention slots away in a single trade without getting compensated for it.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Holy crap man things aren't that binary.
Either those deals are right or he has no value?
Really those are the only possibilities?
at.

That’s not what I am saying but whatever make you feel happy against someone with a different opinion bud

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, value is not maximized, simply because it would be a good return historically. Values rise and fall. If you don't extract a maximum return, based on current market conditions, you aren't maximizing value.

Yes, but you need to have a scale to gauge what maximizing value is. Mercer + a 1st + Casey would be the best goalie return since 2013. Why does Markstrom with retention demand that much of a return? He is 34, his play has been up and down, and the Flames don't need him. I think it is fine if Conroy is squeezing for a better return as he has some time but where does Markstrom go if New Jersey gets Saros in the mean time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Flames hold the hammer specifically with Markstrom but there are alternatives and potentially more coming in the summer. Fleury and Saros this deadline. In the summer there is a bunch of stop gap UFAs and then maybe one of Ullmark or Swayman becomes available.
My biggest issue is honestly if they are happy keeping him. This would be the first time the Flames have proactively traded a player with term to help with a rebuild/retool. Keeping Markstrom is a lose/lose proposition to me. His value either slides off a poor year or he keeps them in a higher spot than they should be.

I get that, and am of the opinion the market will dry up for him in the offseason or we might not have a market at all.

We also can't just give him away either, that sets a bad precedent. Feaster did that with our players and we found out we got low balled for Cammy at the deadline and had to hold on to him.

Maybe they have the deal they want but are holding out to see if they can get a little bit more like Mercer instead of Holtz. Who knows.

Everyday New Jersey sits idle is an opportunity lost for them. If you want the player step up and make the deal like Vancouver did.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We also can't just give him away either, that sets a bad precedent. Feaster did that with our players and we found out we got low balled for Cammy at the deadline and had to hold on to him.

Conroy already beat that rep with the Lindholm trade though.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Well from what Freidman said, sounds like we are holding firm on the value of multi year retention.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well from what Freidman said, sounds like we are holding firm on the value of multi year retention.

I wonder if a 3rd team could step in and be a broker at a cheaper price for NJD?

Would be interesting to see if that happens. Markstrom’s agent has been talked about as a super agent who is the best in the business in helping facilitate stuff like this.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Holy crap man things aren't that binary.
Either those deals are right or he has no value?
Really those are the only possibilities?
Maybe he has value, but the two teams can't agree on the value of retention. That seems to be where its at.

And Conroy knows where this stands.

He would have a feel on whether ...

a) the deal is dead with Jersey
b) it sits with him and he has an offer from Jersey that he can go back to
c) it sits with Jersey and he has to bide his time
d) where he sits with other Markstrom landing spots
e) Markstrom wants to go if he wants to go at all

Seems silly to keep directing the man to do something without knowing any of the details.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I wonder if a 3rd team could step in and be a broker at a cheaper price for NJD?

Would be interesting to see if that happens. Markstrom’s agent has been talked about as a super agent who is the best in the business in helping facilitate stuff like this.

But the retention is an asset - why let someone else have it? If another team is willing to take it on for X, then that is the market value for it, and the Flames should take the same price for it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

I get that, and am of the opinion the market will dry up for him in the offseason or we might not have a market at all.

We also can't just give him away either, that sets a bad precedent. Feaster did that with our players and we found out we got low balled for Cammy at the deadline and had to hold on to him.

Maybe they have the deal they want but are holding out to see if they can get a little bit more like Mercer instead of Holtz. Who knows.

Everyday New Jersey sits idle is an opportunity lost for them. If you want the player step up and make the deal like Vancouver did.

But that's on Jersey's timeline as to when or if they panic.

Conroy can't call him every day and leave voice messages just saying "you're running out of time sucker!"

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But that's on Jersey's timeline as to when or if they panic.

Conroy can't call him every day and leave voice messages just saying "you're running out of time sucker!"

No, but it would be pretty funny if the deal was dead lol

[Bubba17]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But that's on Jersey's timeline as to when or if they panic.

Conroy can't call him every day and leave voice messages just saying "you're running out of time sucker!"

No, but he can call Carolina/LA and trade them to those teams for what he considers fair market value, then where is NJ sitting?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But that's on Jersey's timeline as to when or if they panic.

Conroy can't call him every day and leave voice messages just saying "you're running out of time sucker!"

Yeah pretty much what I mean, this is on New Jersey now.

Looking at the games remaining, being out of the wild card at the moment, time is running out for them.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bonded

No, but it would be pretty funny if the deal was dead lol

You've got an odd sense of humour.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But that's on Jersey's timeline as to when or if they panic.

Conroy can't call him every day and leave voice messages just saying "you're running out of time sucker!"

Thanks, now I’m going to have a bit of coffee stuck in my sinuses for the rest of the day.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

No, but he can call Carolina/LA and trade them to those teams for what he considers fair market value, then where is NJ sitting?

Sure ...

IF those teams are interested
IF those teams are offering a package that's better then the Jersey offer
IF Markstrom would waive for those teams


Otherwise he can't.