Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton found not guilty of sexual assault

[bluejays]

I just realized Cal Foote is Adam Foote's son. Didn't know that all this time.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Locke

The impression that I got was that LPS thought Hockey Canada had taken care of this with a stack of cash and that they werent going to have to do the actual work.

I can see that impression, I heard it differently then. I got the impression LPS investigators in 2018-19 didn’t have enough/didn’t feel they had enough evidence and closed it. It’s certainly possible they closed it because of the civil case as you say.

From the presser, I got the impression more evidence came to light. What that is, we may never know, but I got the sense it was something that reopened the case not just the crap storm that was going on. It was stated a victim could make a request to have a case looked at again and there is an entity that reviews closed cases at the victim request. I don’t remember 100% if DS Dann said that happened in this case but I _think_ she said the request was made either due to new evidence that had come to light or as part of reopening the case and investigating, they received/uncovered more evidence.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I can see that impression, I heard it differently then. I got the impression LPS investigators in 2018-19 didn’t have enough/didn’t feel they had enough evidence and closed it. It’s certainly possible they closed it because of the civil case as you say.

From the presser, I got the impression more evidence came to light. What that is, we may never know, but I got the sense it was something that reopened the case not just the crap storm that was going on. It was stated a victim could make a request to have a case looked at again and there is an entity that reviews closed cases at the victim request. I don’t remember 100% if DS Dann said that happened in this case but I _think_ she said the request was made either due to new evidence that had come to light or as part of reopening the case and investigating, they received/uncovered more evidence.

Yeah thats exactly what I thought too, and then the "video" became part of the story and everything changed.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I can see that impression, I heard it differently then. I got the impression LPS investigators in 2018-19 didn’t have enough/didn’t feel they had enough evidence and closed it. It’s certainly possible they closed it because of the civil case as you say.

From the presser, I got the impression more evidence came to light. What that is, we may never know, but I got the sense it was something that reopened the case not just the crap storm that was going on. It was stated a victim could make a request to have a case looked at again and there is an entity that reviews closed cases at the victim request. I don’t remember 100% if DS Dann said that happened in this case but I _think_ she said the request was made either due to new evidence that had come to light or as part of reopening the case and investigating, they received/uncovered more evidence.

See....this is kind of what gets me.

This 'new evidence' didnt just magically appear. They looked for it.

They didnt invent formerly unknown forensic techniques. They just...looked.

Phase 1: Victim getting paid off. Okay. Nobody cares.

Phase 2: Oh crap we did a terrible job and everybody noticed...now we have to care.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1754630932215005382

Hey Capfriendly, get with it.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Locke

See....this is kind of what gets me.

This 'new evidence' didnt just magically appear. They looked for it.

They didnt invent formerly unknown forensic techniques. They just...looked.

Phase 1: Victim getting paid off. Okay. Nobody cares.

Phase 2: Oh crap we did a terrible job and everybody noticed...now we have to care.

Not to make excuses for police but this is possible, maybe?
If a victim is no longer cooperating with the investigation it's probably not going anywhere. As time passes the NDA becomes the trash it is, because there is no justice in a box of cash, so the victim ignores the NDA they were forced to sign and cooperates.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not to make excuses for police but this is possible, maybe?
If a victim is no longer cooperating with the investigation it's probably not going anywhere. As time passes the NDA becomes the trash it is, because there is no justice in a box of cash, so the victim ignores the NDA they were forced to sign and cooperates.

Again, and I could be wrong, but I believe the "video" was not discovered/provided until the civil case for whatever reason.

Honestly I think that was what changed the whole narrative from he said/she said to where we are today.

Could be my increasingly poor memory playing tricks on me mind you.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Hey Capfriendly, get with it.

They probably need to confirm with their sources exactly how it will be handled.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1754705762721681732

[Enoch Root]

sounds like the players on leave will simply come off the books

That would be better than LTIR. Dube's $2.3M would simply be gone, and the Flames would hit the trade deadline with a fat cap-wallet.

[GFG#1]

It seemed to me that they dodged a lot of questions, by saying they didn't want to screw up the case, which could very well be true, however, it felt more like a cover your ass scenario. I suspect they think there may be a lawsuit coming against the police department.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Locke

See....this is kind of what gets me.

This 'new evidence' didnt just magically appear. They looked for it.

They didnt invent formerly unknown forensic techniques. They just...looked.

Phase 1: Victim getting paid off. Okay. Nobody cares.

Phase 2: Oh crap we did a terrible job and everybody noticed...now we have to care.

It’s entirely possible that’s what occurred.

It’s also entirely possible for phase 2 something new to be uncovered like this supposed video, or someone coming forward with new details.

It could also be a combination of both.

We may get some insights as this process unfolds.

[PepsiFree]

Considering the desired result for the police and the prosecutors is successfully convicting five men accused of sexual assault if the evidence points to them being guilty, I can’t imagine why you would commit the own goal or why people are insisting they commit the own goal of talking about how poorly their investigation went and how bad of a job they did.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Considering the desired result for the police and the prosecutors is successfully convicting five men accused of sexual assault if the evidence points to them being guilty, I can’t imagine why you would commit the own goal or why people are insisting they commit the own goal of talking about how poorly their investigation went and how bad of a job they did.

Outrage. Feed my outrage!

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, I doubt they even completed the investigation when it was closed. They saw that the victim got paid a large sum of money and likely assumed that it would come with an NDA and she would no longer cooperate as part of the payment agreement.

The police still should have kept investigating and not assumed anything. Just my take, I don't know why the case was closed.

An NDA does NOT mean that a person cannot give evidence in a criminal trial. An NDA is civil.


So no...the thinking that she'd gotten paid and had an NDA *should* have NO bearing on whether criminal charges should proceed or are warranted.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

An NDA does NOT mean that a person cannot give evidence in a criminal trial. An NDA is civil.


So no...the thinking that she'd gotten paid and had an NDA *should* have NO bearing on whether criminal charges should proceed or are warranted.

I don't think the NDA was even in place when the first investigation happened in 2018-19. The NDA would have only been in place with the settlement, no? That was in 2022. The lawsuit didn't even start until that year IIRC.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

An NDA does NOT mean that a person cannot give evidence in a criminal trial. An NDA is civil.


So no...the thinking that she'd gotten paid and had an NDA *should* have NO bearing on whether criminal charges should proceed or are warranted.

It is possible that she she felt the NDA prevented her from even talking to the police about it.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think the NDA was even in place when the first investigation happened in 2018-19. The NDA would have only been in place with the settlement, no? That was in 2022. The lawsuit didn't even start until that year IIRC.

I'm unclear on this. Did the settlement happen in 2022 or was it unearthed in 2022?

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by getbak

They probably need to confirm with their sources exactly how it will be handled.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1754705762721681732

Yeah I wonder if it will be treated like LTIR or as if the player is completely off the payroll and space will accrue. Not a huge difference this late in the season but might give the flames just a little more cap space if so

[Infinit47]

My question to all the people who feel the Flames could not terminate Dube's contract unless he is convicted:

If the sole arbiter of enacting the morality clauses in the SPC is conviction for a crime, if Dube is acquitted would you then support the Flames re-signing him? Assuming this occurs well after his current contract ends.

If we are making the results of the criminal case the most important factor in determining whether he should have a contract or not then it follows some people will welcome him back with open arms should be be acquitted.

I'm curious where people stand on this.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

My question to all the people who feel the Flames could not terminate Dube's contract unless he is convicted:

If the sole arbiter of enacting the morality clauses in the SPC is conviction for a crime, if Dube is acquitted would you then support the Flames re-signing him? Assuming this occurs well after his current contract ends.

If we are making the results of the criminal case the most important factor in determining whether he should have a contract or not then it follows some people will welcome him back with open arms should be be acquitted.

I'm curious where people stand on this.

I think that's going to be determined by how many details surface in public and how bad they are.

Look at Perry, he seemed to have done something pretty despicable (not equating to this, only for an example) and there was zero outcry when he re-signed because none of the details came out. Court of public opinion is hugely impactful.

If I'm guessing, given the media interest here I expect that a lot of unpalatable details are going to surface and the Flames will let him walk after his deal expires this summer and these guys will be playing in europe at best if they are free afterwards.

given dube is expiring this summer it's a bit of a moot point for the flames. The only real question is will they retain his RFA rights and I'd guess no