Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

So Frank is saying that the teams had zero idea, as the players already had legal cousnel and they were informed not to disclose it to their teams.

That 100% absolves the Flames from this in my eyes. The Flames can't formally assume a connection, or guilt.

It's pretty greasy by Dube to get out in front of the other players requesting their leave and request leave due to mental health though...even if it is true that he's suffering.

The NHL is on month 18 of their “investigation” into the incident and nobody knows anything. That actually checks out with how seriously I suspect the NHL undertook the investigation.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Frank is doing the team and NHL's dirty work here for sure. Remember when he said the leave of absence for Hart and Dube were not related or connected to the WJC team.

I have absolutely no connections to the Flames or Hockey Canada, but on Friday night before this all broke out I had been told that Dube and Hart would be implicated in this and were likely to be two of the big names.

If I knew about it before his leave of absence then there is no way the Flames had no idea.

yeah, he worded that hit on Flames talk as 'so far'.

But if you were hearing it, the Flames probably had an inclination. But if the lawyer and agent said x I wonder if they open themselves to litigation if they don't mention it in the statement.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Frank is doing the team and NHL's dirty work here for sure. Remember when he said the leave of absence for Hart and Dube were not related or connected to the WJC team.

I have absolutely no connections to the Flames or Hockey Canada, but on Friday night before this all broke out I had been told that Dube and Hart would be implicated in this and were likely to be two of the big names.

If I knew about it before his leave of absence then there is no way the Flames had no idea.

But the Flames were probably under legal obligation not to talk about it because it was under investigation. They were probably not even allowed to ask any questions.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Multi-year investigation is different than a comment in passing.

Dube is technically not guilty but the police feel they have enough evidence to charge him. This is different than a flippant accusation

Whatever the police "feel" doesn't matter a hill of beans unless they convince a jury.

It's almost like we didn't have to progress as a society to have due process and the right to a fair trial instead of trusting what the police "feel".

[Ashasx]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1752436139032502316

Trial unlikely until 2026

[flames_fan_down_under]

We all saw that Bean guy speak at the press conference right? Not surprising they could bungle a PR move like this.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Hockey culture needs to change badly.

Start at the top. Bettman may not be in charge of Hockey Canada or even the problem, though I would argue he is part of the problem. He needs to go.

Gary Bettman is a lawyer. He is obligated to keep his clients out of prison/make them money.

He’s not obligated to “do the right thing” on a human level.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

TSN just dropped an article stating the 5 players are the ones being charged. Bad look for the Flames now knowing Dube will be charged as he was the only one to cite mental health as his reason for leaving and almost certainly confirms why he played like crap all year.

Sources confirm NHL players facing charges in sexual assault investigation
https://www.tsn.ca/1.2069570

Just catching up on the thread now, so it might have been messaged already, but both things can be true.

1. Dube came to the Flames referencing mental health issues and requesting a break. I imagine him knowing this is coming down soon would cause serious stress for him. And as far as the Flames knowing about this, I don't think the Flames knew since Dube is not obligated to tell them about it and can lie about it if he so chooses to. This means that from the Flames perspective, they approved his LOA.

2. Today's news, confirming that Dube is being charged.

Edit - Aaaaannnd obviously it has been mentioned lol. These giant threads are hard to catch up on!!

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

No I'm not.
I'm assuming his mental health crisis was related to all this.
But that means he still could have suffered a crisis and been under direct medical care at the time of the leave.

I don't expect people to have sympathy for Dube, nor have I asked that they should.

I'm challenging people with their knives out for the Flames and how they handled it.

I'm not coming at the flames. I think they are trying to lead on this stuff, it's new territory, and they fumbled it. It wasn't nefarious. But embarrassing and potentially hurtful to future situations where folks need help. They will come out to say something i assume and tighten this up.

But the solution i guess is two mental health categories.

One category for the bad actors who suffer mental health issues because of the shame, dread, and fear of facing consequences from terrible and potentially illegal choices they made that hurt others.

And another for everyone else needing help (the non-bad actors).

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Regardless, until they formally know they can't act on it.

The Flames themselves likely have a policy surrounding mental health at this stage, and unless they were formally notified that Dube was involved and being charged (or convicted) - the policy likely dictates they do what they did.

I agree they couldn't terminate his contract or do anything like that until they were formally notified that Dube was charged.

But feel like maybe they should have had some foresight to not say it was mental health, even if that's what Dube's agent asked for them to say.

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

But the Flames were probably under legal obligation not to talk about it because it was under investigation. They were probably not even allowed to ask any questions.

I don't think the Flames should have talked about, or be disclosing more information.

They should have been disclosing less information, not more.

[Flamesfan05]

I don’t think why people are mad at the Flames
It’s not like they made up the mental accuse for Dube

They just released HIS excuse and added no comment

It’s all on Dube. They just need to cut tie with him now regardless

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

https://twitter.com/user/status/1752436139032502316

Trial unlikely until 2026

I understand they have to get evidence, contact the correct people and work on the case but to have the trial 8 years after the incident, that's ridiculous IMO and 2 years after the players were asked to surrender?

It's not fair for the victim in this case and for anyone involved. Then there is always the appeal process. It could be 2030 by the time any of this gets solved which would be more than a decade for EM to have to sit through this.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe in each case they simply cited the reason given by the player’s agent.

Or they were notified by a family member, teammate, agent, or medical professional that Dube had entered medical care for a mental health crisis.

We don't know. But often in these situations it's not the person themselves that informs the employer that the person is suffering from a medical crisis. It can come from several other people.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

I understand they have to get evidence, contact the correct people and work on the case but to have the trial 8 years after the incident, that's ridiculous IMO and 2 years after the players were asked to surrender?

It's not fair for the victim in this case and for anyone involved. Then there is always the appeal process. It could be 2030 by the time any of this gets solved which would be more than a decade for EM to have to sit through this.

lol welcome to the Canadian justice system.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

I understand they have to get evidence, contact the correct people and work on the case but to have the trial 8 years after the incident, that's ridiculous IMO and 2 years after the players were asked to surrender?

It's not fair for the victim in this case and for anyone involved. Then there is always the appeal process. It could be 2030 by the time any of this gets solved which would be more than a decade for EM to have to sit through this.

And that's the current state of the legal system in CAN.

It's availability of judges, prosecutors etc.

Trial timelines
The Supreme Court of Canada’s 2016 R. v. Jordan decision – often called the ‘Jordan decision’ – establishes timelines that trials must be heard by:

18 months after charges are laid – for a province’s main entry point into the court system (example: Court of Justice of Alberta)
30 months after charges are laid – for a province’s superior court (example: Court of King’s Bench of Alberta)

https://www.alberta.ca/jordan-applications

A lot of cases can be thrown out now if they're over the above limits.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The NHL is on month 18 of their “investigation” into the incident and nobody knows anything. That actually checks out with how seriously I suspect the NHL undertook the investigation.

One of the police got involved in NHL can't even comment, because there could be legal ramifications. I imagine prior to the NHL investigation the players would have lawyered up, and once the police got involved the NHL had to back off. Because of guilt or innocence, the NHL s hands were tied until the facts come out.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Just catching up on the thread now, so it might have been messaged already, but both things can be true.

1. Dube came to the Flames referencing mental health issues and requesting a break. I imagine him knowing this is coming down soon would cause serious stress for him. And as far as the Flames knowing about this, I don't think the Flames knew since Dube is not obligated to tell them about it and can lie about it if he so chooses to. This means that from the Flames perspective, they approved his LOA.

2. Today's news, confirming that Dube is being charged.

I agree that the Flames may have not known until last week that Dube was going to be implicated. What they do next will be interesting.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

I'm not coming at the flames. I think they are trying to lead on this stuff, it's new territory, and they fumbled it. It wasn't nefarious. But embarrassing and potentially hurtful to future situations where folks need help. They will come out to say something i assume and tighten this up.

But the solution i guess is two mental health categories.

One category for the bad actors who suffer mental health issues because of the shame, dread, and fear of facing consequences from terrible and potentially illegal choices they made that hurt others.

And another for everyone else needing help (the non-bad actors).

I get the idea. But it isn't that binary. In this case it seems like it is because of the horrific nature of what happens. But how do you draw that line with what a bad actor is.

If a person has a gambling addiction and as a result causes their family to go deep into debt are they a "bad actor".

What if someone develops alcoholism and loses his/her job as a result, causing their family to be in financial crisis. Are they a bad person.

The extremes are easier.

But most of the cases aren't on the extremes.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I agree that the Flames may have not known until last week that Dube was going to be implicated. What they do next will be interesting.

What they do next will likely/should be something like this:

We have seen the reports Dillon Dube is going to be charged in regard to the London sexual assault.
We give our sincere sympathy to the victim in this situation.
In order to respect the legal process, we can have no further comment.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I agree that the Flames may have not known until last week that Dube was going to be implicated. What they do next will be interesting.

I'll be shocked if the Flames don't 100% cut all ties with Dube immediately.

a) #### him, he's being charged with SA.
b) He clearly sucks as a human.
c) He also sucks as a hockey player.