2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Very poorly run teams, I actually believe the current Flames management would do well with a rebuild compared to those teams.

There's a very vocal group of posters who think the Flames should do a scorched-earth rebuild, and also think the Flames' management is the worst in the league.

So tell me, why would you assume that the worst management in the league wouldn't massively screw up the rebuild?

[blankall]

Despite what many say, the Flames actually had a legit rebuild post-Iggy. They had Gaudreau emerge and start to lead the offence. On paper they had all the necessary pieces Rebuilding more would have been detrimental to the team.

What happened to the Flames had nothing to do with management's decision to compete. Monahan fell apart. The team could never achieve in the playoffs. Gaudreau and Tkachuk both wanted out. The team stopped developing their prospects internally. These are what led to the previous failure, not some decision to pull the plug on a rebuild early or striving for mediocrity.

[butterfly]

Some teams have high draft picks and don't make the playoffs.
Some teams have high draft picks and make the playoffs.
Therefore, having high draft picks is no way to build a guaranteed playoff team.

That's an argument? There is no way to build a guaranteed playoff team, otherwise everybody would be doing it.

Flames have had one top-5 pick ever, I think? Could be wrong. Sometimes they find stars like Fleury and Gaudreau when other teams get scared off by their size.

Hope they get a bunch of 1st rounders the next few years.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blankall

Despite what many say, the Flames actually had a legit rebuild post-Iggy. They had Gaudreau emerge and start to lead the offence. On paper they had all the necessary pieces Rebuilding more would have been detrimental to the team.

What happened to the Flames had nothing to do with management's decision to compete. Monahan fell apart. The team could never achieve in the playoffs. Gaudreau and Tkachuk both wanted out. The team stopped developing their prospects internally. These are what led to the previous failure, not some decision to pull the plug on a rebuild early or striving for mediocrity.

Don't forget Bennett not panning out. If he turned into the player they thought they would be getting I think things would have been totally different for the Flames. That's why it can take some time for rebuilding things to turn things around as when a top 5 pick doesn't work out, it sets the organization back.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

There's a very vocal group of posters who think the Flames should do a scorched-earth rebuild, and also think the Flames' management is the worst in the league.

So tell me, why would you assume that the worst management in the league wouldn't massively screw up the rebuild?

Not everyone who thinks the Flames should rebuild also thinks their management is the worst in the league.

And for those who do, what's the alternative? Let the "worst management in the league" make win now moves and spend money on UFAs? Isn't that what we're seeing the results of now?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

Look at Pittsburgh attendance before Mario and before Sid. Look at Chicago attendance for 10 years before Kane. Look at attendance of Colorado after their cups in the 90's until 2010. The only thing that kept those teams in existence, unlike Winnipeg and Quebec, was the fact that the owners were rich.

How have Buffalo, Edmonton, Ottawa, Columbus et al done with all those high picks. Weren't Buffalo and Ottawa two picks to make the playoffs, how about NJ?

Edwards has a net worth of $2.7 billion. Allan Markin is worth $2.2 billion. I'm sure the other owners have a few dollars also. Even if they never made another dollar between the two of them and played to an empty building for the next 50 years, they would still have tens of millions left in the bank.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Flames have had one top-5 pick ever, I think? .

Yup (Bennett)


They've drafted 6th overall 5 times:
Stillman
Tkaczuk
Fata
Monahan
Tkachuk

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Ped

Yup (Bennett)


They've drafted 6th overall 5 times:
Stillman
Tkaczuk
Fata
Monahan
Tkachuk

Well, technically Butterfly just said "Flames", not the "Calgary Flames"

Atlanta had the following picks:
Jacques Richard 2nd OA in 1972
Tom Lysiak 2nd OA in 1972

Both good players as well.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Don't forget Bennett not panning out. If he turned into the player they thought they would be getting I think things would have been totally different for the Flames. That's why it can take some time for rebuilding things to turn things around as when a top 5 pick doesn't work out, it sets the organization back.

Agreed.

Looking back on things, if the Flames had had proper coaching or just some better luck, that team looked could have been dynamite now:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Bennett-Zary
Magiapane-Backlund-Coleman
Pelletier, Coronato, Prospisil, etc..

Hanifin-Tanev
Kylington-Andersson

Markstrom

The failures and the reason we are here now had nothing to do with pulling the plug on a rebuild early. Everything to do with coaching and asset management and just plain bad luck post-rebuild.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

I’d be happy with a prospect like Zac Jones (D) or Sykora (F) and a second for Lindholm. First rounder in 2024 would be gravy.

I am happy you are not our GM.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Well, technically Butterfly just said "Flames", not the "Calgary Flames"

Atlanta had the following picks:
Jacques Richard 2nd OA in 1972
Tom Lysiak 2nd OA in 1972

Both good players as well.

I wasn't around back then but they couldn't have both been 2nd OA in 1972

[Sylvanfan]

Lysiak was in 73...top pick that year for the Islanders was...Denis Potvin.

[1qqaaz]

I have faith in management's capability to rebuild properly. The team is fine/good at drafting. If Conroy is as good at asset management as he seems to want to be, they'll have a future.

What I have less faith in is ownership's desire to rebuild. The team has been mediocre for about 30 years - circa 1994.
Murray Edwards first joined the Flames ownership group in...1994.

I have faith in the operations. I don't have faith in the directional strategy.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Well, the Flames never been able to properly asses the value of their own players so this doesn’t surprise me. The Flames should 100% be looking to trade Markstrom. Keeping him is foolish.

Why keep him? To try and win/build a winning culture? Nope, sorry - not going to happen. The team has a losing culture with Markstrom at the helm of the crease. All he’s doing is keeping this team drafting 9th rather than 5th. Both situations are that of a losing team.

I am sure the Flames would probably love to move Markstrom at the deadline but unless something has changed Markstrom doesn't want to move this year and has a NMC. Maybe once Lindholm is out he changes his mind, maybe he decides to pursue a winning team but everything I have heard is that Markstrom doesn't want to move this year. Maybe it is a family thing, maybe a team thing, could be a location thing, I don't know. Maybe he is open to moving in the offseason instead.

[Badgers Nose]

No need to add a whole bunch of extra players to Conroy‘s list. Right now he needs to focus on those UFA’s.

Once that’s done, other players can decide if they like the direction the team is heading or not. Conroy can then use the off-season and draft to move those guys if they don’t want to be here.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am sure the Flames would probably love to move Markstrom at the deadline but unless something has changed Markstrom doesn't want to move this year and has a NMC. Maybe once Lindholm is out he changes his mind, maybe he decides to pursue a winning team but everything I have heard is that Markstrom doesn't want to move this year. Maybe it is a family thing, maybe a team thing, could be a location thing, I don't know. Maybe he is open to moving in the offseason instead.

So if he does not want to move his NMC then Conroy’s asking price is irrelevant.

[Enoch Root]

Professor takes 22 random-ish data points between 1 and 30/32, averages them, and discovers the average is 15!

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1751750697006072190

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So if he does not want to move his NMC then Conroy’s asking price is irrelevant.

Pretty much. I think Conroy doesn't really want to have the conversation with Markstrom of waiving because he knows he doesn't want to move this year. I think he would have that conversation if someone offered him a big overpayment but if someone is going to offer the lowball offers he has gotten so far for his other assets he isn't even going to stir that pot.

[dammage79]

I'm sure they know full well Where he'd waive to. And will only approach him if they feel they got the right package.