Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[btimbit]

McLeod and Foote have both signed new contracts since then. Hart and Dube I think signed the summer before this all started to come out

Formenton was also allegedly the ringleader, or player#1, whatever they refer to it these days

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

This is what pisses me off. If you know this is coming why do you let him play instead of suspending him with pay pending the investigation. Ring resolved.

Same goes for the Flames. If Dube was involved, why did the Flames let him play right up until the moment he was told to turn himself in for arrest?

I mean, Ottawa knew about this and didn't sign Formenton.


Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Others have already said it but the Flames may have only been privy to what Dube or the investigating parties were willing to share.

I don’t know the CBA or employment law inside out but I suspect ‘firing’ Dube based on a pending investigation likely would have resulted in a lawsuit from Dube. Perhaps one of our law talking guys can chime in.

[trackercowe]

I wonder if the Flyers disclosed "all the information" in attempting to trade Hart in the off-season? If I was one of the other teams they were negotiating with I would feel duped if they didn't provide details into Hart's ongoing transgressions. Weren't there rumors of teams having interest in Dube as well? I remember Oilfan saying the Sharks had interest at one point.

[getbak]

If it was Formenton's room and he was the one who invited the rest, he doesn't really have any hope of denying any involvement. So, I think it's easier for the Senators to walk away from him.

They didn't give him a qualifying offer and they don't have any legal obligation to do so. It made him a UFA and any team could have signed him, so they didn't take away his right to work.



Dube and Hart were both already signed to multiyear contracts when this story broke, so that makes it harder for the Flames and Flyers to cut ties with the players if they keep showing up for work.



The 2 Devils players are a different case because they were both up for new contracts last summer and neither received a qualifying offer from their previous teams, even though neither QO was that big. McLeod eventually re-signed with the Devils and actually got a bigger contract than his QO. Foote signed with the Devils as a UFA.

I wonder if McLeod denied any involvement and vouched for Foote? Also, Fitzgerald and Adam Foote were briefly teammates with the Avalanche, so I wonder if Adam vouched for Cal, which made Fitzgerald willing to take a chance?

[Ped]

Originally Posted by getbak

They didn't give him a qualifying offer and they don't have any legal obligation to do so. It made him a UFA and any team could have signed him, so they didn't take away his right to work.

No, they did qualify him, but QOs do expire, and they never did agree on a contract. The Senators still hold his rights - hedging their bets, most likely.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

This is what pisses me off. If you know this is coming why do you let him play instead of suspending him with pay pending the investigation. Ring resolved.

Same goes for the Flames. If Dube was involved, why did the Flames let him play right up until the moment he was told to turn himself in for arrest?

I mean, Ottawa knew about this and didn't sign Formenton.


Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Because innocent until proven guilty is still the law.

Let's say someone publicly accuses you of something you didn't do. Your employer cares more about public opinion than than they do about you, so they fire you (because in the private sector, there's no such thing as "suspending you with pay" for the 5+ years it can take to resolve things).

You can't get another job anywhere else either, becasue in order to aqcuire the public opinion they wanted, they had to publicly announce they've fired you. Now you're untouchable because imagine what happens when the public finds out a new company has hired you? What kind of taste does that leave in your mouth?

Ps. "The public" is thousands of people like yourself (and many others in this thread) who clamour for someone's career to end the second an accusation is made.


(Disclaimer: I'm not commenting on the innocence or guilt of anyone invloved with whatever's happening in this story, so keep your pitchforks to yourselves.)

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1751661719837929705

Yeah the evidence that says someone knew the conduct was sketchy enough to video her alleged consent and then followed up with texts the next day.

True consent doesn't need video evidence.

False accusations are much rarer than people think. See #7 https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...ths-facts.html

It's sad that people get more up in arms about innocent until proven guilty rather than the types of conduct we continue to see. How about just not assault people?

And I'm not saying they don't deserve a trial, of course they do, but man will it be a tough one all around I imagine.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Yeah the evidence that says someone knew the conduct was sketchy enough to video her alleged consent and then followed up with texts the next day.

True consent doesn't need video evidence.

False accusations are much rarer than people think. See #7 https://www.canada.ca/en/department-...ths-facts.html

It's sad that people get more up in arms about innocent until proven guilty rather than the types of conduct we continue to see. How about just not assault people?

And I'm not saying they don't deserve a trial, of course they do, but man will it be a tough one all around I imagine.

I think the vast majority of people adhere to this premise.

Thats why one of the main topics of discussion has centered around changing the 'Culture of Hockey.'

You have to deal with the root cause. But you cant let the symptoms run rampant without consequences.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Because innocent until proven guilty is still the law.

Let's say someone publicly accuses you of something you didn't do. Your employer cares more about public opinion than than they do about you, so they fire you (because in the private sector, there's no such thing as "suspending you with pay" for the 5+ years it can take to resolve things).

You can't get another job anywhere else either, becasue in order to aqcuire the public opinion they wanted, they had to publicly announce they've fired you. Now you're untouchable because imagine what happens when the public finds out a new company has hired you? What kind of taste does that leave in your mouth?

Ps. "The public" is thousands of people like yourself (and many others in this thread) who clamour for someone's career to end the second an accusation is made.


(Disclaimer: I'm not commenting on the innocence or guilt of anyone invloved with whatever's happening in this story, so keep your pitchforks to yourselves.)

Yeah but in these instances, they CAN be suspended with pay, so why not take that route? Maybe it never amounts into anything, and you return them to the active roster. You could argue reputational damage for future contracts, then a team can just rebut that your play is what hurt your future contracts.

I get what everyone is saying that employers can't jump the gun, and we also don't know what the players were or were not telling the teams. Likely on the side of less info, so maybe Ottawa really was the only team that had enough info to act. We'll probably never know, which is why the speculation runs rampant!

[Locke]

Always reminds me of this quote, but you can take 'God' out and replace it with 'Anyone.'

Nobody should have to be looking over your shoulder. Not God, not Buddha, not Mohammad, not your mother...nobody.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

It's sad that people get more up in arms about innocent until proven guilty rather than the types of conduct we continue to see.

1. Read story.
2. Empathize with victim and genuinely feel bad about whatever's alleged to have happened to them.
3. Put story away.
4. Do not obsess about story.
5. Still do not obsess about story.
6. Continue not obesessing about story.
7. Read facts of the case and verdict of the trial.
8. React accordingly.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

1. Read story.
2. Empathize with victim and genuinely feel bad about whatever's alleged to have happened to them.
3. Put story away.
4. Do not obsess about story.
5. Still do not obsess about story.
6. Continue not obsessing about story.
7. Read facts of the case and verdict of the trial.
8. React accordingly.

Sorry, my post shouldn't have quoted yours regarding that last part. But just because people are posting in the thread doesn't mean they are obsessing with the story.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Ped

No, they did qualify him, but QOs do expire, and they never did agree on a contract. The Senators still hold his rights - hedging their bets, most likely.

Oh, I didn't realize they still held his rights. I thought they had cut him loose completely.

[iggyloob12]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1751733420168708375

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

What about Ottawa?

Any team can choose to sign or not re-sign an RFA for any reason.

Interestingly NJD did re-sign both Foote and McLeod last summer. The Formenton decision was the summer before when this was a hotter topic [than last summer]

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Sorry, my post shouldn't have quoted yours regarding that last part. But just because people are posting in the thread doesn't mean they are obsessing with the story.

All good. I quoted your post just cause it was the catalyst (or maybe just context) for my post, but my post wasn't actually directed at you personally.

I wasn't offended at all, and I apologise if I caused any!

[Ped]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Any team can choose to sign or not re-sign an RFA for any reason.

Interestingly NJD did re-sign both Foote and McLeod last summer. The Formenton decision was the summer before when this was a hotter topic [than last summer]

Foote was actually signed as an UFA by NJ. As for Formenton, the Sens may not have signed him, but they did try to trade his rights.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Any team can choose to sign or not re-sign an RFA for any reason.

Interestingly NJD did re-sign both Foote and McLeod last summer. The Formenton decision was the summer before when this was a hotter topic [than last summer]

Foote and McLeod are both RFA's at the end of this season.

[stang]

Found this fifth estate video. Not sure if it was posted before but thought it deserved a posting now

https://youtu.be/-T-2lC_TpRU?si=c10u9x_CPv3WOpFM

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Because innocent until proven guilty is still the law.

Let's say someone publicly accuses you of something you didn't do. Your employer cares more about public opinion than than they do about you, so they fire you (because in the private sector, there's no such thing as "suspending you with pay" for the 5+ years it can take to resolve things).

You can't get another job anywhere else either, becasue in order to aqcuire the public opinion they wanted, they had to publicly announce they've fired you. Now you're untouchable because imagine what happens when the public finds out a new company has hired you? What kind of taste does that leave in your mouth?

Ps. "The public" is thousands of people like yourself (and many others in this thread) who clamour for someone's career to end the second an accusation is made.


(Disclaimer: I'm not commenting on the innocence or guilt of anyone invloved with whatever's happening in this story, so keep your pitchforks to yourselves.)

Terminating contracts in the NhL is reserved for when you are charged but not convicted of having Oxycodone in your vehicle, not for alleged sexual assaults. NHL teams know when a player has gone far enough to cite a material breach in the contract and Oxycodone is the line in the sand.