I picked the player we could have had if we didn't want Travis Hamonic so desperately, hah.
I want a top 5 pick more than extra picks too, but no one is trading those, so let's get the extra picks. If you have picks 7 and 19 and offer them for pick 4 or something, they will definitely think about it.
I want extra picks too but my hope is our pick is top 5. I’d be ok keeping Noah if we traded a couple forwards. We are much better off at forward. We could end up with a top prospect dman with our pick too. But right now we can add extra picks get top 5 and keep Noah. It’s possible so that’s why I’m saying it’s not stupid to sign him. Not my preference just not stupid either
I see a lot of Canuck content and hear it from my friends out here. Fact is, early last season most of them felt they needed a full-on rebuild but ownership was preventing it. They thought, after the return for Chucky and the addition of Kadri, that we were in a good place to push towards contending.
Then they found out what a management team who aren't braindead like Benning was can do and without a teardown they're nothing like the tire fire they were a year ago. If you avoid too many long-term cap killing contracts, shop for bargains after all the free-agent frenzy has settled down, and invest in your coaching staff and especially a good pro scouting group, you can make savvy pickups and complement what we have coming up with our young guys.
Canucks were a very different situation. Almost the opposite situation of the flames.
They have young cornerstone players in key positions with Pettersson, Hughes and Demko. They just needed a better supporting cast around them.
Also Demko was injured most of last season.
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Canucks were a very different situation. Almost the opposite situation of the flames.
They have young cornerstone players in key positions with Pettersson, Hughes and Demko. They just needed a better supporting cast around them.
Also Demko was injured most of last season.
The Canucks this season is probably most similar to the Flames 21-22 season TBH.
A bit different in structure overall - but similar in a group that previously didn't seem to be elite had a hot season where everything kind of went right.
This Canucks team more offensive based, where as that Flames team was more defensive.
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Nobody talked about Quinn Hughes that way before Hronek though either - he was a flawed one dimensional dman. Two guys have complimented each other well and made each other better.
I'm sure if you ask Hughes and Makar they love having Hronek / Toews as their partner and doubt they think they are overrated.
Hronek would still fit the core age of Detroit with Larkin (27), Debrincat (26), Compher (28) etc. Signing a 26/27 year old to an 7 or 8 year deal is not nearly as bad as a 30+ year old to an 7 or 8 year deal, feel like this website has somehow made those two things the same when it isn't the case. That 3/4 year different is huge on an 7 or 8 year deal. Top players are generally still good until they are 32-34 years old. It's 34+ plus you need to worry about.
What they are actually lacking is a top 4 d-man in that same age group - which is exactly what Hronek would be.
I would bet that Detroit regrets giving the money they did to Holl and Chiarot instead of just keeping Hronek - even with ASP looking great.
That's a good point, really. We won't ever know if Hughes would have developed into this anyway.
But I think even if Vancouver called and offered Hronek for Sandin Pellikka straight up, never mind the player they got in the 2nd round, Detroit would be the ones saying no.
If they 'need' or want a top-4 D they would be in on Hanifin and I haven't seen any rumors like that.
That's a good point, really. We won't ever know if Hughes would have developed into this anyway.
But I think even if Vancouver called and offered Hronek for Sandin Pellikka straight up, never mind the player they got in the 2nd round, Detroit would be the ones saying no.
If they 'need' or want a top-4 D they would be in on Hanifin and I haven't seen any rumors like that.
I actually think there was a rumor last week that Detroit was looking for a d-man and could be interested in Hanifin.
It was David Pagnotta - so who knows how true but I do think they aren't loving their blueline.
He looks like a top 20 D because he plays with Quinn Hughes who might be the best D in the league. Did anyone think he was a top 20 D before that? I think Devon Toews is overrated for the same reason.
Didn't Yzerman build Tampa Bay? There is no Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Sergachev in Detroit. He probably saw that and realized that it's preferable to have these prospects at their age instead of locking up half of Hronek's 30s.
And they have some very interesting prospects in their system. Helps when they're all emerging at the same time.
After 7 years of rebuilding, Detroit doesn't have any Kucherovs or Hedmans. Well that's not exactly a resounding endorsement of rebuilding, is it? Also, I am always amazed at how much credit Yserman constantly receives. And yet, here we are, suggesting that he is right to trade Hronek because - after 7 years - he doesn't have the pieces to pop out of the rebuild. Better to wait a while longer and see if luck can make him smarter.
Yzerman should certainly get credit for what he did in Tampa, but how it's gone in Detroit so far shows that you also need an incredible amount of luck to build a team like that.
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Yzerman should certainly get credit for what he did in Tampa, but how it's gone in Detroit so far shows that you also need an incredible amount of luck to build a team like that.
Funny part is Yzerman's first round picks in Tampa are kind of bad actually with Vasilevskiy being the only home run...it was the late round picks that made that team.
Literally only people who post here thought that after the last two years before this one. It had been two seasons of people lauding Quinn's two way play with the only thing holding him back was his lack of goals. The thing that has put him over the top this year is that he's shooting.
Also, a lot of Red Wing fans were lamenting the loss of Hronek. They didn't understand the move by Yzerman.
It’s really difficult, if not impossible, to plan out a rebuild and have everything go to plan but here’s my attempt:
1. Trade all the UFAs and get hopefully two first round picks and 3 second round picks back in the trades.
2. Draft 3 times in the first round at the 2024 draft including once in the top 7. I’ll assume whichever player they get is not ready for the NHL next year so they don’t make the team out of camp.
3. Don’t sign any big name UFAs in the offseason. At most just bring back Tanev on a team-friendly deal to help as a mentor to any young defencemen (Kyllington or Poirier for example). There seem to be lots of players on the farm team that ready to take a step and make the team.
4. Without bringing in any top players, I’ll assume the next two seasons will be where the team “bottoms out”. Zary will likely have a bit of a sophomore slump as he transitions to centre in the NHL. Young guys like Wolf, Coronato, Poirier, and Pelletier will have some great opportunities but there will be growing pains.
5. Next year’s TDL might be when the flames trade mangiapane and Andersson. If those two play well next year that should return a 2nd/3rd round pick for Mangiapane and a 1st round pick + 2nd round pick for Andersson.
6. Likely a top 5 pick in 2025.
7. Another offseason in 2025 without signing any big name UFAs. That offseason could likely be the one that Draisaitl is a UFA and teams might look to offload some contracts to make room to sign him. Flames could weaponize their cap space to take back some contracts to help teams do that while taking back some draft picks.
8. Likely another top 5 pick in 2026. Would be a great year of all years to win the draft lottery but you can’t control that.
9. With luck, most of the top young players that the flames have now should be established NHLers by the 2026-2027 season and the team can hopefully start to move the other way up the standings. Likely draft outside the top 7.
10. 2027-2028 season they are hopefully competing for a playoff spot and hopefully become a contender the by the following year or two.
That is a very optimistic outline of a full rebuild where everything works out. That shows how long it can take even when lots of things go to plan. Some people would struggle to be patient for that long but something like that is what we would have to be prepared for as fans.
Last edited by stemit14; 01-10-2024 at 03:51 PM.
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Literally only people who post here thought that after the last two years before this one. It had been two seasons of people lauding Quinn's two way play with the only thing holding him back was his lack of goals. The thing that has put him over the top this year is that he's shooting.
Also, a lot of Red Wing fans were lamenting the loss of Hronek. They didn't understand the move by Yzerman.
I don't think it was only here.
I recall there being lots of talk about Hughes missing Tanev, and how the team wasn't good enough in their own zone.
It was all overstated and undeserved (as it tends to be with smaller offensive dmen that drive play) but the discussion was out there anyways.
After 7 years of rebuilding, Detroit doesn't have any Kucherovs or Hedmans. Well that's not exactly a resounding endorsement of rebuilding, is it? Also, I am always amazed at how much credit Yserman constantly receives. And yet, here we are, suggesting that he is right to trade Hronek because - after 7 years - he doesn't have the pieces to pop out of the rebuild. Better to wait a while longer and see if luck can make him smarter.
Just because Yzerman is rebuilding in the theoretically correct way, doesn't mean it will result in success. Maybe his method only has a 50% chance of an eventual cup win. Maybe it's only 25%, or even less. But there is pretty good evidence that the Flames/Wild method of 'just get in and anything can happen' has a 0% chance of winning a cup. It might not even have a 50% chance of getting in the playoffs. Both teams have trying this for decades and barely even have any playoff series wins.
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I recall there being lots of talk about Hughes missing Tanev, and how the team wasn't good enough in their own zone.
It was all overstated (as it tends to be with smaller offensive dmen) but the discussion was out there anyways.
That was the shortened season after the bubble. Two years after that no one was talking about missing Tanev to stabilize his game (though he did find a new dad in Schenn around then). Hughes biggest drawbacks the two seasons prior to this one have been not shooting enough and playing on a losing team.
Yzerman should certainly get credit for what he did in Tampa, but how it's gone in Detroit so far shows that you also need an incredible amount of luck to build a team like that.
It also shows why you need TOP picks not 4-9th overalls
Red Wings issues is they keep losing the draft and not being bad enough .
So bad luck on the lottery for sure , but it’s hard to find franchise players outside the top 3 (really top 2) picks
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After 7 years of rebuilding, Detroit doesn't have any Kucherovs or Hedmans. Well that's not exactly a resounding endorsement of rebuilding, is it? Also, I am always amazed at how much credit Yserman constantly receives. And yet, here we are, suggesting that he is right to trade Hronek because - after 7 years - he doesn't have the pieces to pop out of the rebuild. Better to wait a while longer and see if luck can make him smarter.
How anyone could read that article and not see it as Conroy moving players out is beyond me.
"I have an idea of what I would like to get for each guy; an idea of what the return should be."
Thats says two players or more leaving ...
"I ask Don a lot of questions. How much do I call? How often? Am I bugging people by calling too much? Should I sit back a little more?"
That suggests he's the aggressor and not sitting on his hands at all, to the point where he asking experience people in house if he's pushing too much.
I can only guess it is because he is not tearing it down to ice the Calgary Wranglers lineup, and try to go 0-82.
One of my sources is sending me information that the flames have engaged Markstrom on his willingness to waive his NMC. He is willing to waive for the right situation and they must have a perceived contention window for the term of his contract or he wants to stay in Calgary.
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The Canucks this season is probably most similar to the Flames 21-22 season TBH.
A bit different in structure overall - but similar in a group that previously didn't seem to be elite had a hot season where everything kind of went right.
This Canucks team more offensive based, where as that Flames team was more defensive.
Yep, and as good as they look, this might be it for a year or 2 for them. Pettersen and Hronek could be getting $20 mil between the 2 next year. They have $30 mil space and 12 guys. After they sign, could be $10 mil space and 14 signed.
