2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[really?]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I have a source in the organization; they said there is a huge divide on what direction to take; its been like that from the beginning of December.

Not surprising given the history of the team. At this point the Flames are looking at a way to move INTO playoff position with a number of key players in contract years, which tend to be the among the most productive years of service. If they are resigned to hoping these guys MIGHT make the post season, leadership is fueled by something well short of reason.

Assuming they do get in (maybe 7th or 8th) then next year and beyond they’re either trying get into the playoffs without some of their top players who have walked in free agency, or they are trying to do the same thing with extended players who are aging. Either way there is nothing logical supporting the argument to stay the course. Simply hope.

Most of the league has a plan to build, or are positioned to make their run and are seeking additions. Unfortunately, the Flames are just packed in the middle of that sandwich, invisible, somewhere between the meat and the cheese. The discussions on this board have been the same for 3 plus years and yet here we are. Dark days as a Flames fan, when the fanbase seems to be more reality based than management.

Emblematic of this whole situation is Blake Coleman. Love the player, could do wonders on a 3rd line with a contender, but on this team his efforts simply ensure that with the 14th pick in the 2024 draft the Flames will be positioned to hopefully draft the next Blake Coleman.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

.600 point% against the bottom 5 last year.
.560 point% against everyone else.

They will probably get a couple extra points from those games.

The bottom 5 teams had an average P% of about .370 last year, so .600 is actually underperformance (though obviously not by a huge amount)

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The bottom 5 teams had an average P% of about .370 last year, so .600 is actually underperformance (though obviously not by a huge amount)

It is an underperformance but they did play slightly better against bad teams than they did against the other teams.

Also, the possibility of 3-point games in the NHL kind of ruins the zero sum nature of sports generally. (Flames could go 1.000 against those teams but they could still be .500 vs. Calgary themselves)

[Sec214]

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

It is an underperformance but they did play slightly better against bad teams than they did against the other teams.

Also, the possibility of 3-point games in the NHL kind of ruins the zero sum nature of sports generally. (Flames could go 1.000 against those teams but they could still be .500 vs. Calgary themselves)

And either way, it certainly isn't what sank them last year, which I believe was your original point.

On that topic though, I look at how they played against Chicago last year: 0-3-0

If they had gone 1-1-1 (against the 30th overall team with a -97 goal differential) they would have made the playoffs. That's it: 1-1-1. That isn't asking too much, I don't think.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Narcos was so good that he literally IS Pablo Escobar for me

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Do you think Detroit is mad they got Sandin Pellikka and a 2nd round pick for 1+ year of Hronek?

Something like that would be great building blocks for the Flames.

Probably - they want to be a playoff team and their defense is bad. The are probably wishing they gave Hronek the contract he was asking for now, it doesn't have to be 1+ year of Hronek - it could have been 9 years of Hronek.

Hronek has been great for Vancouver, has made Hughes better, and is second in the NHL in 5v5 points for a d-man.

So yeah I think Vancouver is pretty happy and Yzerman might be kicking himself a little considering Seider looks worse without him in the lineup too.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And either way, it certainly isn't what sank them last year, which I believe was your original point.

On that topic though, I look at how they played against Chicago last year: 0-3-0

If they had gone 1-1-1 (against the 30th overall team with a -97 goal differential) they would have made the playoffs. That's it: 1-1-1. That isn't asking too much, I don't think.

Yeah, memphusk mentioned that the Flames usually don't do well against bad teams so I decided to look at it. I think we just remember the losses more.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Probably - they want to be a playoff team and their defense is bad. The are probably wishing they gave Hronek the contract he was asking for now, it doesn't have to be 1+ year of Hronek - it could have been 9 years of Hronek.

Hronek has been great for Vancouver, has made Hughes better, and is second in the NHL in 5v5 points for a d-man.

So yeah I think Vancouver is pretty happy and Yzerman might be kicking himself a little considering Seider looks worse without him too.

I doubt it. They weren't winning with him, so why keep him at that age and contract situation? Now he could very well get more money than Hanifin and they have one premium and one good 18 year old prospect.

[Bongsong]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Non stop phone calls?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I doubt it. They weren't winning with him, so why keep him at that age and contract situation? Now he could very well get more money than Hanifin and they have one premium and one good 18 year old prospect.

Because the goal is still to win. Detroit wants to be a playoff team this season.

ASP looks great - but if he reaches the level Hronek is playing at this season that would be a huge win for the pick. There is no guarantee he reaches that level.

If a player is good and you think they can help you win long term, then you should try to keep them. Hronek/Hanifin are 26 years old - they aren't some ancient 30+ year old players that aren't going to help you win.

That's what Tampa, Washington, and Colorado all did, even before they were winning.

You'll never build a winner if you trade all the players when they reach 24-28 years old for picks again. You shouldn't keep everyone, but you need to make sure you are identifying the right ones and keeping them.

Looks like Hronek was probably one of those guys they should have kept considering he looks like a top 20 d-man this season. You're not going to win with an entire Core that's 28 or younger - you need to have some balance.

[ReinhartonD]

I see a lot of Canuck content and hear it from my friends out here. Fact is, early last season most of them felt they needed a full-on rebuild but ownership was preventing it. They thought, after the return for Chucky and the addition of Kadri, that we were in a good place to push towards contending.

Then they found out what a management team who aren't braindead like Benning was can do and without a teardown they're nothing like the tire fire they were a year ago. If you avoid too many long-term cap killing contracts, shop for bargains after all the free-agent frenzy has settled down, and invest in your coaching staff and especially a good pro scouting group, you can make savvy pickups and complement what we have coming up with our young guys.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Sec214

- somebody calling about Lindholm

- somebody calling about Hanifin
- Hanifin's agent calling about a new contract

- somebody calling about Tanev
- Tanev's agent calling about a new contract

- somebody calling about Mangiapane

- somebody calling about Dube

- Conroy's mother calling to make sure he is dressed warm enough because she saw that a cold front was hitting western Canada

- Conroy's wife telling him to pick up milk and eggs because its too cold for them to send the maid outside to go grocery shopping

so many possibilities

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Because the goal is still to win. Detroit wants to be a playoff team this season.

ASP looks great - but if he reaches the level Hronek is playing at this season that would be a huge win for the pick. There is no guarantee he reaches that level.

If a player is good and you think they can help you win long term, then you should try to keep them. Hronek/Hanifin are 26 years old - they aren't some ancient 30+ year old players that aren't going to help you win.

That's what Tampa, Washington, and Colorado all did, even before they were winning.

You'll never build a winner if you trade all the players when they reach 26-28 years old for picks again. You shouldn't keep everyone, but you need to make sure you are identifying the right ones and keeping them.

Looks like Hronek was probably one of those guys they should have kept considering he looks like a top 20 d-man this season. You're not going to win with an entire Core that's 28 or younger - you need to have some balance.

He looks like a top 20 D because he plays with Quinn Hughes who might be the best D in the league. Did anyone think he was a top 20 D before that? I think Devon Toews is overrated for the same reason.

Didn't Yzerman build Tampa Bay? There is no Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Sergachev in Detroit. He probably saw that and realized that it's preferable to have these prospects at their age instead of locking up half of Hronek's 30s.

And they have some very interesting prospects in their system. Helps when they're all emerging at the same time.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by butterfly

He looks like a top 20 D because he plays with Quinn Hughes who might be the best D in the league. Did anyone think he was a top 20 D before that? I think Devon Toews is overrated for the same reason.

Didn't Yzerman build Tampa Bay? There is no Point, Kucherov, Hedman, Sergachev in Detroit. He probably saw that and realized that it's preferable to have these prospects at their age instead of locking up half of Hronek's 30s.

And they have some very interesting prospects in their system. Helps when they're all emerging at the same time.

Nobody talked about Quinn Hughes that way before Hronek though either - he was a flawed one dimensional dman. Two guys have complimented each other well and made each other better.

I'm sure if you ask Hughes and Makar they love having Hronek / Toews as their partner and doubt they think they are overrated.

Hronek would still fit the core age of Detroit with Larkin (27), Debrincat (26), Compher (28) etc. Signing a 26/27 year old to an 7 or 8 year deal is not nearly as bad as a 30+ year old to an 7 or 8 year deal, feel like this website has somehow made those two things the same when it isn't the case. That 3/4 year different is huge on an 7 or 8 year deal. Top players are generally still good until they are 32-34 years old. It's 34+ plus you need to worry about.

What they are actually lacking is a top 4 d-man in that same age group - which is exactly what Hronek would be.

I would bet that Detroit regrets giving the money they did to Holl and Chiarot instead of just keeping Hronek - even with ASP looking great.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Sure, but we have Kadri, Backlund, and Huberdeau to play that role.

I want to be the Flames to be the team getting the Noah Dobson draft pick.

Of course but you’re cherry picking one of the best mid first picks in the last 10 years. If a team like Arizona is interested in a sign and trade and we can get a pick 16th OV or around there fine. But we don’t know what teams are offering and we might not get Dobson with that pick

I’m ok to trade Noah it’s just not stupid to keep him either. I want top 5 pick more than extra picks. We can keep Noah and get top 5 pick too. Just need to sell someone soon

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Narcos was so good that he literally IS Pablo Escobar for me

I still like Vinny Chase's depiction.

[gvitaly]

Conroy on the FAN

I saw the athletic interview posted, but I wasn't sure if the FAN960 interview was posted as well. Hopefully it's not Fata, and some of you missed it.

[dammage79]

The Fan interview was fluff. A lot of Backlund talk and then a light state of the union address. Nothing of substance regarding UFAs.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Of course but you’re cherry picking one of the best mid first picks in the last 10 years. If a team like Arizona is interested in a sign and trade and we can get a pick 16th OV or around there fine. But we don’t know what teams are offering and we might not get Dobson with that pick

I’m ok to trade Noah it’s just not stupid to keep him either. I want top 5 pick more than extra picks. We can keep Noah and get top 5 pick too. Just need to sell someone soon

I picked the player we could have had if we didn't want Travis Hamonic so desperately, hah.

I want a top 5 pick more than extra picks too, but no one is trading those, so let's get the extra picks. If you have picks 7 and 19 and offer them for pick 4 or something, they will definitely think about it.