2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Fox? If Fox hadn't have wanted out, I assume the Hamilton / Hanifin/Lindholm trade would have looked different, or wouldn't have happened at all. Could have been a very different looking team.

If you'd have said Gaudreau instead of Fox though...

Fox is a norris trophy dman, had he signed in Calgary things would be very different

Fox is a top 20 player in the entire league

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by traptor

They did but none of those guys are here anymore so it's time to hit the reset.

Which is what the team is doing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I don’t necessarily disagree with your point overall, but the bolded is just ridiculous.

I wouldn’t ever call something that can just as easily be born out of pure incompetence and inability to do your job at all “putting in the work.”

Especially including Crosby in the comment - they literally won a league-wide lottery!

Now that is good work, if you can get it!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Any nuggets from this interview? I cancelled my Athletic subscription a few months ago.

Just wait, they will eventually offer it back to you for 1.99 a month. Every year I cancel before the renewal and every year about 3 months later they give me an offer to come back for 1.99 a month.

[dino7c]

I don't need to pay $1.99 to hear them fluff the Oilers

I can get that for free

[scobel]

Originally Posted by traptor

Here's top drafted picks that are active on their team of some pf the top contenders in our conference.

-Players are active on the team that drafted them

-No traded players included

LA Kings:

2021 8th OA Clarke

2020 2nd OA Byfield

2019 5th OA Turcotte

2008 2nd OA Doughty

2005 1th OA Kopitar



Colorado Avalanche:

2019 4th OA Byram

2017 4th OA Makar

2015 10th OA Rantanen

2013 1st OA Mackinnon

2011 2nd OA Landeskog


Dallas Stars:

2017 3rd OA Heiskanen


Vancouver Canucks:

2019 10th OA Podkolzin

2018 7th OA Hughes

2017 5th OA Petterson



Edmonton Oilers:

2018 10th OA Bouchard

2015 1st OA McDavid

2014 3rd OA Draisaitl

2013 7th OA Nurse

2011 1st OA RNH



Winnipeg Jets:

2020 10th OA Perfetti

2014 9th OA Ehlers

2013 13th OA Morrissey

2011 7th OA Scheifele



Calgary Flames:





The Stars are the exception but they still bottomed out recently and got Heskenen. They also got extremely lucky and hit it out of the park with Hintz, Robertson and Ottenger.

I'm not saying we need to full on tank. But we do need to get some top picks. Event he teams people use as examples of not full tanking still bottomed out for a season or two recently.

I hope Conroy is playing chess and not checkers and trying to indirectly rebuild. He wants the team to get younger. Good. A younger team will probably be a worse team short term.

We did have two 6th and 4th overalls plus some later round homeruns in Fox and Gaudreau. The ability to retain the star players has been the bigger issue. Drafting has not been. though i would not complain about rebuilding to add further picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Flames: "We don't want to get used to losing"

Mediocrity is much better haha

But seriously, I don't expect a scorched earth approach.

Just make damn sure you don't let key players walk as free agents, and if you get a real solid offer for a vet that won't be useful 5 years from now, take that offer and run.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by traptor

Here's top drafted picks that are active on their team of some pf the top contenders in our conference.

-Players are active on the team that drafted them

-No traded players included

LA Kings:

2021 8th OA Clarke

2020 2nd OA Byfield

2019 5th OA Turcotte

2008 2nd OA Doughty

2005 1th OA Kopitar



Colorado Avalanche:

2019 4th OA Byram

2017 4th OA Makar

2015 10th OA Rantanen

2013 1st OA Mackinnon

2011 2nd OA Landeskog


Dallas Stars:

2017 3rd OA Heiskanen


Vancouver Canucks:

2019 10th OA Podkolzin

2018 7th OA Hughes

2017 5th OA Petterson



Edmonton Oilers:

2018 10th OA Bouchard

2015 1st OA McDavid

2014 3rd OA Draisaitl

2013 7th OA Nurse

2011 1st OA RNH



Winnipeg Jets:

2020 10th OA Perfetti

2014 9th OA Ehlers

2013 13th OA Morrissey

2011 7th OA Scheifele



Calgary Flames:





The Stars are the exception but they still bottomed out recently and got Heskenen. They also got extremely lucky and hit it out of the park with Hintz, Robertson and Ottenger.

I'm not saying we need to full on tank. But we do need to get some top picks. Event he teams people use as examples of not full tanking still bottomed out for a season or two recently.

I hope Conroy is playing chess and not checkers and trying to indirectly rebuild. He wants the team to get younger. Good. A younger team will probably be a worse team short term.

Did the Stars bottom out? They won the lottery from a position not that close to the bottom to get Heiskanen? They were 7th worst that year, basically where the Flames are now.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Which is what the team is doing.

I hope so but I think that is still up in the air until we see how the UFAs play out.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It bewilders me that the Flames are still so concerned about creating a culture of losing if they pick top 3 in the draft a couple times (despite never having picked top 3 in franchise history), while at the same time having only two playoff series wins over the last 19 years.

Let's just try something different.

A culture of loss aversion is deeply ingrained in the franchise. The overriding goal is to not become a bottom-feeder. If that means sustained mediocrity, and all hopes for a Cup resting on a cinderella run, then so be it.

It’s like the Flames brass look around the league, see the Wild, and say that’s our model franchise.

[Macho0978]

I have no problem keeping Hanifin if the contract is 8 years at $7.5 mil. IMO people saying keeping him is stupid is a stupid comment.

My problem is, if we want to bottom out, we need to make decisions sooner. Sign Hanifin but trade Tanev and Lindholm opens up the door to bottom out and keep a good young dman for the future.

I'd also love to see a guy like Mangiapane moved out to help with bottoming out.

You can keep Hanifin and tank and there is a lottery. Some of the teams that have had success getting high end superstars in the draft did win the lottery too.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

My problem is, if we want to bottom out, we need to make decisions sooner. Sign Hanifin but trade Tanev and Lindholm opens up the door to bottom out and keep a good young dman for the future.

Signing up for someone's age 28-35 seasons is not keeping anybody young.

[SuperMatt18]

The thing with the whole "you need top 5 picks to win" argument is that every team in the league has top 5 picks. Some have had success, some have not. Just picking early doesn't guarantee anything.

The key overall is drafting well, maximizing your assets, and generally trying to build a strong team in a continual fashion. None of this idea of "going all in" for a single run mindset, you need to build a consistent pipeline and continually add to the core. Tampa, Colorado, and Washington all won the cup 10+ years after making their first top 5 pick.

Look at the teams that have made top 5 picks going back to 2003 (the start of the Pittsburgh re-build and the salary cap era), and the volume of top 5 picks they have made. Cup winners bolded.

Carolina, Edmonton, Columbus: 6
Chicago, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Florida, Islanders, Arizona, Los Angeles, Colorado, New Jersey: 5
Montreal, Toronto: 4
Ottawa, Winnipeg, Philadelphia, Washington, Anaheim, Tampa Bay: 3
Seattle, Boston, Vancouver, Rangers, St Louis: 2
Calgary, Dallas, Minnesota, Nashville, Detroit, San Jose: 1
Vegas: 0

So Flames are on the lower end here...but also the edge was set at 5th overall, so if you include Monahan and Tkachuk as 6th overall picks they would have been right in the range with 3 high picks. The real issue right now is less that the Flames didn't have those picks but more that the elite players / high picks they did have and draft (Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Fox) aren't with the team anymore with few long term assets to show for it.

The organization had an asset management problem, not a bottoming out and drafting problem.

In the end the team does need to do a better job of accumulating top end talent with a top 5 pick, but also think this shows that just accumulating those picks and going scorched earth guarantees nothing. You need to have a good strategy and plan top to bottom to build a team over the longer term.

[kukkudo]

I have a source in the organization; they said there is a huge divide on what direction to take; its been like that from the beginning of December.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I have a source in the organization; they said there is a huge divide on what direction to take; its been like that from the beginning of December.

Oh Christ

If they walk any of these UFA's to free agency thinking this season is worth salvaging I really don't know what to say

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I have a source in the organization; they said there is a huge divide on what direction to take; its been like that from the beginning of December.

Doesn't sound all that dissimilar from us.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I have a source in the organization; they said there is a huge divide on what direction to take; its been like that from the beginning of December.

The boss guy (Bean) made his stance well known this past Summer, so this doesn't shock me.

I was definitely hoping that the lack of results on the ice would have helped steer some sanity into the ranks, but the Flames have never proven themselves to be an agile organization.

The deadline can't come soon enough. The actions leading up to that should give us a good indication as to just how screwed we are as fans who hope for something more/something better than what they've delivered these past two decades (...or longer).

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Oh Christ

If they walk any of these UFA's to free agency thinking this season is worth salvaging I really don't know what to say

I doubt it's about these UFAs to be honest.

It's probably more bigger picture in terms of more of a tear down rebuild, or if they move these UFAs and then try to use assets to do more of a retool short term.

Trading for picks doesn't mean you have to use those picks to draft players.

[Royle9]

As a community we all want the same thing - Quality product on the ice.

As a fanbase we often clash over "rebuild" vs "re-tool" and then take it a step further and get into the scorched earth rebuild versus the flames style rebuild where we trade or let some UFA's walk and then try to keep extending the core (which isn't a re-build in my mind)

Do you ever notice that when this topic comes up the group as a whole comes to the same conclusion which is "The FLAMES will never do it"? Why is that?

We often see arguments about how it "never works" or "look at Buffalo, SJ, Edmonton" etc etc but ignore teams like Tampa, Colorado, LA etc. What works in 1 market wont necessarily work in another, that we can agree. But the flames have simply never attempted a complete tear down and re-build so how do we know we wouldn't be succesful?

Look, nobody is saying its going to be fun or that its going to guarantee us a cup in the next 5-10 years. But the current foundation and philosophy hasn't worked either, and not for over 2 decades. We saw a few years of divisional wins only to flop 1st round of the playoffs, the teams best players and arguably foundational core pieces are gone now, we tried to salvage that by anchoring the Flames with arguably one of the worst contracts in the league now, hoping he can find his game once again.

Yet here we are, again staring down the barrel of a number of UFA's some of which could fetch this team a pretty decent haul based on rumours including 1st round picks. Giving the Flames something to build towards as we look to build a new arena and yet once again it appears as if the new management philosophy is nothing but the recycled one we've all been accustomed to.

Its time for some change, its time to give our scouts some ammunition and build from within, bring up some more young guys and let the team ride out this season with what we have. We've got arguable 2 strong draft years coming up with some very good looking talent and I would argue our amateur scouting has been above average the last few years so lets use it.

I just want the product on the ice to at least be fun to watch, I want youth and I want this team to acquire a winning culture once again. Lastly I want to see them hoist a cup in my life time, preferably while I'm able to share that moment with my 2 sons, something I go to do as a kid with my dad in 89.

Change it up Conroy, what we've been doing for 20+ years hasn't worked.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think back to the 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 seasons where the team “bottomed out” and it was really not that painful. That 2013-2014 season was where they adopted that “hardest working team in hockey” reputation. They lost lots of games but rarely went on long, continuous losing streaks. They were in a lot of games and were rarely an easy out. Felt like nothing as bad as what teams like San Jose are going through.

I think the most painful phase from a “scorched earth” rebuild can be what we are seeing now from Ottawa and Buffalo. You spend years losing and expect the team to eventually take a step and make the playoffs but still find yourself at the bottom of the standings. Not sure how to avoid those struggles of taking that step… I was one of the people that thought for sure Buffalo was about to become a top 6 team in their conference this year.

I think the Flames keeping some key veterans and not gutting the entire team allowed for that culture to build and stay. Trading Gio would have made a ton of sense in terms of a tear down but he was strategically kept as the veteran to lead this team. Cammalleri was someone they identified as a player they wanted to keep but were only willing to do a 3 year deal. Stajan, Wideman, Backlund, Brodie were other veterans/ youngish players that the team decided to keep as well. With that said you will have posters on this forum say that despite picking 3x in the top 6 and acquiring other top 5 picks from the same era via trade that this team failed to rebuild post Iginla.

I fully agree that what we are seeing in Buffalo and Ottawa is the cautionary tale and this is the time where the fanbase might turn on their younger players and demand change which can keep the cycle going. Lots of fans here were saying Sam Bennett was done developing at 22 and others stated after 1-2 years that Hanifin was what he was and he has since improved at both ends of the rink.

To me the organization needs more assets and the best way to do that is getting futures for your free agents.