Sorry to derail, this thread should be about Crosby.
The combination of skill, leadership, effort on every shift, work ethic, and commitment, put him among the greatest of all time. Easily the best player of the 21st century, IMO.
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When Mario came back in 2000 and just casually scored at an almost 2pts per game in the dead puck era, while playing with a broken body and skating at the speed of a tortoise, that to me solidified him as a tier above the current crop of elite/generational players.
I'm a huge fan of Crosby. I think without the concussions these discussions may be a bit different. He was completely dominant in his prime, and remains elite in a league that demands 200ft play top to bottom in the lineup.
But to its still Mario, Orr, Gretzky, then everyone else.
Obviously this is all very subjective and difficult to compare.
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Crosby is #4 all time and the best player since Mario.
It's amazing as a sports fan watching players like that in their sports.
McDavid isn't in the conversation at all. Even Oiler hate aside, he needs to adapt his game to ever get into the top 10 all time list, let alone top 5. Can still happen if he leaves Edmonton and is forced to play a complete game, but won't happen in Edmonton.
Crosby has guys that you can argue are peers (Ovechkin, McDavid). I'll take Crosby all day, out of that group, but to say he is peerless, while claiming the others on that list aren't, is baseless.
I didn't say Crosby is peerless. I said he's the only one that a) had peers and b) played above them.
Also, Orr and Howe played at the same time, so Orr was definitely not peerless.
(In the context of this discussion, a peer is someone of the same calibre of talent.)
Crosby is unbelievable. Best player I've ever seen, and nobody who has entered the league since him comes close in my opinion. Not much flash (anymore) but all heart and will.
But he still does have flash. Those ridiculous goals he scores close in are wizardry.
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But he still does have flash. Those ridiculous goals he scores close in are wizardry.
Still too. Had a chip shot redirect top corner a few weeks ago… a couple games ago he made a play at the net that was so cerebral, he got down on one knee and choked up on his stick and basically made his entire body a backboard for a bank shot… goal. He’s so fun to watch every single time.
I would compare him to Lionel Messi. Greatest of his era and worthy of GOAT conversion, although there were others before him who paved the way.
Crosby brings a certain edge and hunger to his game but does it quietly with class and humility. Never got to see Gretzky, Mario, or Orr play but I will cherish being able to watch his career from start to finish.
Regarding players like Orr and Gretzky revolutionizing the game... I wonder if thats a fair comparison in the modern age due to their not being much revolutionizing left? Certainly for a true revolution it has to be so different we don't see it coming, I just find it hard to think there are truly those giant leaps forward in strategy and skill left. Since the 80's has there really been significant offensive innovation?
Crosby has done so much scoring and so much winning often playing with some pretty weak wingers and supporting cast. I know he has had Malkin his whole career, but it seems like they do play apart more than most prolific duos. Having Letang on the back end is huge as well, but if you look at who the wingers are with the most goals Crosby assisted on its guys like Kunitz, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Dupuis, etc. Crosby has been such a workhorse he has not needed to be surrounded by top tier talent to succeed.
Regarding the earlier discussion about the NHL and marketing stars, the one thing in their defense is that their marketing strategy has to be sustainable over the long term. They are counting on their hype of McDavid and Bedard to carry them for a decade or more when Crosby is long gone. So I feel like I am ok with the media hype. But nice to have a reminder from Marchand about how great Crosby still is.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
This individual is not affluent and more of a member of that shrinking middle class. It is likely the individual does not have a high paying job, is limited on benefits, and has to make due with those benefits provided by employer.
"everything that can be invented, has been invented"
- Charles Duell, Commissioner of the US Patent Office, 1899
That's fair but in 1915 the Nobel prize goes to a guy chatting with his wife in their living room, and providing some poor mathematical proofs, that are instantly improved upon by people who know math.
Today the Nobel prize goes to the 3 lead researchers on two different projects involving hundreds of scientists.
Can we still see a revolution? Yes, but I suspect any revolution will be one we see in retrospect that builds on the work of many individuals iterating off eachother. A revolution in hockey today will look more like the 2-1-2 trap or butterfly goaltending, than a singular talented defenceman skating with the puck.
Regarding players like Orr and Gretzky revolutionizing the game... I wonder if thats a fair comparison in the modern age due to their not being much revolutionizing left? Certainly for a true revolution it has to be so different we don't see it coming, I just find it hard to think there are truly those giant leaps forward in strategy and skill left. Since the 80's has there really been significant offensive innovation?
Crosby has done so much scoring and so much winning often playing with some pretty weak wingers and supporting cast. I know he has had Malkin his whole career, but it seems like they do play apart more than most prolific duos. Having Letang on the back end is huge as well, but if you look at who the wingers are with the most goals Crosby assisted on its guys like Kunitz, Hornqvist, Guentzel, Dupuis, etc. Crosby has been such a workhorse he has not needed to be surrounded by top tier talent to succeed.
Regarding the earlier discussion about the NHL and marketing stars, the one thing in their defense is that their marketing strategy has to be sustainable over the long term. They are counting on their hype of McDavid and Bedard to carry them for a decade or more when Crosby is long gone. So I feel like I am ok with the media hype. But nice to have a reminder from Marchand about how great Crosby still is.
Could you imagine Prime Crosby in an NHL without a Salary Cap?
Playing beside a Prime Lemieux and just being surrounded by stars? He'd have destroyed most of the NHL's records.
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