[News] Marchand: Crosby's not getting the credit he deserves right now

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Coach

The league and media has only ever been able to market one player at a time.

I think they are getting better at it, but they still tend to hyper focus on one guy at a time. It was the same when Crosby came into the league. It's like they forgot there were other talented players in the league. It was all Crosby all day, everyday, 365 days a year for a while.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I feel like I barely hear about Jack Hughes since he entered the league (compared to other names), and here you have a center that put up 100 points in the league at 21 years old and is at a 1.5 PPG clip this season.

The players fixated on also seems to depend on the organizations they play for.

Jersey has always fallen in the shadow of the Rangers for eastern hype, even while Jersey sits on some of the best young talent in the league.

Crosby falling off the earth in the media also makes little sense to me seeing as the players being hyped in his stead are nowhere near as good all around players. All flash... but that's what sell the game now I guess.

[Locke]

I would content that Crosby is one of, if not 'the' greatest to ever play the game.

The fact that people look at his unreal abilities and just shrug them off as 'Crosby being Crosby' is testament to this.

The guy is so unbelievably good that he makes the amazing seem mundane.

[bdubbs]

Hard to argue with Sid’s accolades. If he never missed any time during his monster start to that one year, who knows how many points he would’ve ended up with that season?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Hard to argue with Sid’s accolades. If he never missed any time during his monster start to that one year, who knows how many points he would’ve ended up with that season?

And he learned that its not 'just about the points.'

The man is a true winner.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

He’s probably the most well rounded player that’s ever played the game

Maybe, that Howe guy was pretty good at everything too.

[Barnet Flame]

So many have forgotten that hockey is a team sport and that the players who understand and live this concept are the most valuable in any team.

In my opinion, you need to be a team player, regardless of numbers you put up, in order to be considered a great. If you’re after individual accolades, take up something like tennis.

Crosby is a true team player and he has the Championships to prove it.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

"Iggy!"

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

I would content that Crosby is one of, if not 'the' greatest to ever play the game.

The fact that people look at his unreal abilities and just shrug them off as 'Crosby being Crosby' is testament to this.

The guy is so unbelievably good that he makes the amazing seem mundane.

HUGE Crosby fan, and I also think he is under-rated. But he isn't in the same tier with Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux. They were each able to separate themselves from their peers - quite significantly - and all were credited with changing the game. For me, they remain at the top.

Crosby is absolutely in the conversation when it comes to picking #4 though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

HUGE Crosby fan, and I also think he is under-rated. But he isn't in the same tier with Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux. They were each able to separate themselves from their peers - quite significantly - and all were credited with changing the game. For me, they remain at the top.

Crosby is absolutely in the conversation when it comes to picking #4 though.

Did you SEE their peers? Some of those guys couldnt even skate and emptied a pack of darts between periods.

What about goaltending at the time?

The level of the game is something else now.

[FanIn80]

Yeah I would argue that Orr and Howe were peers. I'm not sure if either seperated themselves from the other.

Gretzky was in a peerless vacuum for a decade until Lemieux came along, and then I wouldn't say Gretzky separated himself from Lemieux (or vice versa).

Crosby's only real peer was Ovechkin for a long time, and Crosby very much seperated himself from Ovie for a large chunk of it. Then along came McDavid, and while McDavid's owned the Art Ross since he's entered, I'd say that Crosby has still been a much more dominant player the whole time. To steal one of Bob Hartley's things, I would classify McDavid as a cookie monster, and you can't really compare someone like that (favourably) to a guy like Crosby.

So, I think I've made an argument that, in the realm of Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid, only Crosby has ever really seperated himself from his peers.


(Remember, "peer" means "equal." Just because someone else plays hockey, that doesn't make them a peer. It just makes them a fellow hockey player, or a colleague.)

[curves2000]

One of the best ways to gauge just how good Crosby is, is to know the background story about how he was somewhat "discovered" on the national stage.

Gretzky was in Nova Scotia or something and a local reporter was interviewing him about his career, hockey, the youth today etc. When asked if anybody would ever break any of his records, he said something along the lines of "Yes, this Crosby kid".

Crosby would have been very young, maybe 13/14. Attention quickly shifted to him considering how grand of a statement that was. When the national media and people in the hockey community found out that this kid was working out with a personal trainer at 13 (Andy O'Brien I believe from Calgary) was shooting 1000 pucks a day into his mom's dryer (not actually true, but the pucks hit the dryer) and more. He was a pro before he became a pro. He was WAY advanced in terms of dedication, training, nutrition and way more.

He was elite like no other as a kid and he in essence has shown the way for virtually every single youth hockey player since he was drafted. Process that! All the young players want to wear their birth years as their numbers, every kid these days is working out with trainers, focusing on nutrition and more.

Countless shocking stories of his dedication to his craft still. The sacrifice of going to an NHL All-Star weekend and hitting the gym at 6 am while the other top league players are either hung over or in bed with a girl.

The legends are the legends for a reason and for arguably sports most dominate athlete to think your going to break his records, when your literally a child, goes to show you just how much talent you have overall. The best know the best.

Funny thing is that he isn't even done as a player anymore. He has plenty of hockey in him and could end up potentially being top 5 all time.

[jaymac106]

Originally Posted by curves2000

One of the best ways to gauge just how good Crosby is, is to know the background story about how he was somewhat "discovered" on the national stage.

Gretzky was in Nova Scotia or something and a local reporter was interviewing him about his career, hockey, the youth today etc. When asked if anybody would ever break any of his records, he said something along the lines of "Yes, this Crosby kid".

Crosby would have been very young, maybe 13/14. Attention quickly shifted to him considering how grand of a statement that was. When the national media and people in the hockey community found out that this kid was working out with a personal trainer at 13 (Andy O'Brien I believe from Calgary) was shooting 1000 pucks a day into his mom's dryer (not actually true, but the pucks hit the dryer) and more. He was a pro before he became a pro. He was WAY advanced in terms of dedication, training, nutrition and way more.

He was elite like no other as a kid and he in essence has shown the way for virtually every single youth hockey player since he was drafted. Process that! All the young players want to wear their birth years as their numbers, every kid these days is working out with trainers, focusing on nutrition and more.

Countless shocking stories of his dedication to his craft still. The sacrifice of going to an NHL All-Star weekend and hitting the gym at 6 am while the other top league players are either hung over or in bed with a girl.

The legends are the legends for a reason and for arguably sports most dominate athlete to think your going to break his records, when your literally a child, goes to show you just how much talent you have overall. The best know the best.

Funny thing is that he isn't even done as a player anymore. He has plenty of hockey in him and could end up potentially being top 5 all time.

Andy O' Brien from Charlottown PEI, not Calgary FYI

[FurnaceFace]

I started writing I want to see what we’d say in the alternate universe where he didn’t get the concussion(s), and was going to claim he is top three. It occurred to me by playing that game, one has to also take Mario’s cancer away and Jagr doing Jagr things.

He is the greatest of this century though, by a large margin. MacKinnon might be closest. McJesus can score points, but that’s it. He’ll never be half the leader Crosby is.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Locke

Did you SEE their peers? Some of those guys couldnt even skate and emptied a pack of darts between periods.

The point isn't that they were miles better than the worst player in the league. The point is that at their peak, they were miles better than the second-best player in the league. That's the ‘separation’ Enoch is talking about, and the top players are the ‘peers’ he's referring to.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by jaymac106

Andy O' Brien from Charlottown PEI, not Calgary FYI

Thanks for this! It makes sense he is from out east as opposed to Calgary considering he was working with Crosby as a 13 year old etc.

I recall reading he was based in Calgary or from Calgary and when I did a simple search, found this fascinating piece as well. He was based in YYC at the time of writing.

What a talent Crosby was to workout and have the dedication like this.

https://torontosun.com/2013/12/05/si...ay-up-together

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

He’s probably the most well rounded player that’s ever played the game

This is why he’s underrated. You can make an argument about the top-tier offensive guys like McDavid, Matthews, and McKinnon. But none of those peers come close to Crosby when it comes to puck possession and winning battles. I’ve long thought that even if Crosby were a 60 pt guy he’d be one of the most effective and sought-after players in the league. You can’t say that about the other guys in the conservation for MVP.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Did you SEE their peers? Some of those guys couldnt even skate and emptied a pack of darts between periods.

What about goaltending at the time?

The level of the game is something else now.

'Peers' doesn't refer to the general quality of the league, it refers to the other superstars. In any given era, players are limited by the equipment, training, and science of the time (among other things). All players are subjects of their own environment. The only fair thing we can look at is how much did they excel vs others of their time.

Orr completely changed the game, and there hasn't been a defenseman that even deserves comparison, in 60 years since (Makar is close, but still isn't Orr).

Lemieux and Gretzky both dominated like no one else ever has, offensively. And I am not saying cs the average player of their time, I am saying in comparison to the very best players of their generation - those two were several levels above everyone else.

Crosby might be the best, after them. And that is damn high praise.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Yeah I would argue that Orr and Howe were peers. I'm not sure if either seperated themselves from the other.

Gretzky was in a peerless vacuum for a decade until Lemieux came along, and then I wouldn't say Gretzky separated himself from Lemieux (or vice versa).

Crosby's only real peer was Ovechkin for a long time, and Crosby very much seperated himself from Ovie for a large chunk of it. Then along came McDavid, and while McDavid's owned the Art Ross since he's entered, I'd say that Crosby has still been a much more dominant player the whole time. To steal one of Bob Hartley's things, I would classify McDavid as a cookie monster, and you can't really compare someone like that (favourably) to a guy like Crosby.

So, I think I've made an argument that, in the realm of Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid, only Crosby has ever really seperated himself from his peers.


(Remember, "peer" means "equal." Just because someone else plays hockey, that doesn't make them a peer. It just makes them a fellow hockey player, or a colleague.)

Strongly disagree with this.

Orr has no peers.

Crosby has guys that you can argue are peers (Ovechkin, McDavid). I'll take Crosby all day, out of that group, but to say he is peerless, while claiming the others on that list aren't, is baseless.

[robertsfanatic]

Marchand's not wrong and Crosby is an easy top 5 all-timer.