2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[traptor]

Again. Please feel free to provide examples of a AAA prospect ready for the NHL+ 1st being traded for a pending UFA or for a UFA involved in a sign and trade.


I'm all ears. Open to have my mind changed if you can provide tangible evidence.

Otherwise hampus lindholm is probably a realistic top end comparable

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by traptor

1st + holtz for a pending UFA is a huge stretch. People are getting way ahead of themselves.

Holtz for hanifin straight up would be a good deal and is unlikely.

Value range is somewhere around a mid-to-late 1st + 2nd + 3rd.

More realistic:

2024 1st + foote + 3rd
2024 1st + Casey

I think some people around here grossly undervalue top pairing 26 year old d-men.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

I think some people around here grossly undervalue top pairing 26 year old d-men.

Pending UFA d-man*

And there's tangible examples to be referenced.

Exhibit A: hampus Lindholm.

[dammage79]

NJ/Colorado/WPG/Dallas/NYR. 3 central division teams and 2 metro teams pushing for our players. Arms race is gonna kick off soon.

Personally I like the Options from NJ, WPG and Colorado. NYR and Dallas, less so unless the Stars want to give up Wyatt Johnston like the summer rumors said is what the Flames want.

[SuperMatt18]

The one thing different here (and it might have changed) is that the Flames and Hanifin were willing to re-sign and had agreed upon on contract terms.

No idea if it's still the case but if the returns aren't good enough I do wonder if theres a world where the Flames would go "Okay Noah the $7.25M x 8 years is back on the table".

So in that case the Flames do have a bit more leverage than maybe a typical UFA, especially if a agreed upon contract is part of the trade.

And in terms of Hampus Lindholm.

2022 1st
2022 2nd
2023 2nd
Vaakanainen (2017 1st)

Honestly don't think that's that much less value than a 1st + Holtz would be.

Vaakanainen (18 OV pick that was 5 year post draft)
2x 2nd round pick

vs

Holtz (7th OV pick that is 4 years post draft)

That value is probably actually pretty close, the draft position is probably actually inflating Holtz's true value at this point.

Trying to find who the closest comparison to Vaakanainen this season would be (2 years post that trade it would be a 2019 draft pick) and it's likely Ville Heinola - he's played 35 NHL games and has 11 points.

Heinola
2nd
2nd

vs

Holtz

That's probably pretty close value TBH.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by traptor

Pending UFA d-man*

And there's tangible examples to be referenced.

Exhibit A: hampus Lindholm.

Multiple teams interested, what other comparables are available right now? I think the Flames are in a great position to get an absolute haul for their trade assets, even more if they retain salary and/or get them extended in a sign and trade or the acquiring team negotiates a deal in advance.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Francis talking about re-signing Hanifin and him having interest in staying.

Well that seals Noah's departure. Probably comes even sooner now.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Francis talking about re-signing Hanifin and him having interest in staying.

Well that seals Noah's departure. Probably comes even sooner now.

I think Francis is just talking about the stuff we've previously heard from Noah before the deal fell apart.

Noah walked away from the deal, and the Flames pulled the deal. I'd be surprised if Noah sticks around at this point.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Francis talking about re-signing Hanifin and him having interest in staying.

Well that seals Noah's departure. Probably comes even sooner now.

I do think it might still be an option.

Unless a team meets the Flames asking price then they re-sign him.

Which I'm actually okay with for Hanifin. They should move Lindholm and Tanev no matter what, but that strategy with Hanifin is perfectly fine.

If all you're getting offered for Hanifin is a late first (25-32) and a B level propsect then you keep him IMO.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The one thing different here (and it might have changed) is that the Flames and Hanifin were willing to re-sign and had agreed upon on contract terms.

No idea if it's still the case but if the returns aren't good enough I do wonder if theres a world where the Flames would go "Okay Noah the $7.25M x 8 years is back on the table".

So in that case the Flames do have a bit more leverage than maybe a typical UFA, especially if a agreed upon contract is part of the trade.

And in terms of Hampus Lindholm.

2022 1st
2022 2nd
2023 2nd
Vaakanainen (2017 1st)

Honestly don't think that's that much less value than a 1st + Holtz would be.

Vaakanainen (18 OV pick that was 5 year post draft)
2x 2nd round pick

vs

Holtz (7th OV pick that is 4 years post draft)

That value is probably actually pretty close, the draft position is probably actually inflating Holtz's true value at this point.

I'd take holtz over Vaakanainen + x2 2nds, as I'm sure most here would.

Just comes down to quantity over quality.

I'd love for the flames to get Holtz + 1st, I just don't see it as realistic.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Agreed. It's pretty easy to see after that extension fell through that he's on the way out and it's now just a matter of when and for what return.

Francis is impressively out of touch with reality. Continues to astound and amuse me.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Multiple teams interested, what other comparables are available right now? I think the Flames are in a great position to get an absolute haul for their trade assets, even more if they retain salary and/or get them extended in a sign and trade or the acquiring team negotiates a deal in advance.

I think they get a haulf and I hope they get a prospect like Holtz +1st.


I just don't know how realistic it is.

A 1st + x2nd 2nds + b prospect would still be a good haul

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I do think it might still be an option.

Unless a team meets the Flames asking price then they re-sign him.

Which I'm actually okay with for Hanifin. They should move Lindholm and Tanev no matter what, but that strategy with Hanifin is perfectly fine.

If all you're getting offered for Hanifin is a late first (25-32) and a B level propsect then you keep him IMO.

It’s been said before, Hanifin is a bit different because he’s still relatively young. As soon as we trade him we will soon be looking for someone just like him. Tanev can be traded and he might even want to sign back here and that can be evaluated then. Lindholm can go asap, he has appeared to be rather indifferent all year.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by traptor

Again. Please feel free to provide examples of a AAA prospect ready for the NHL+ 1st being traded for a pending UFA or for a UFA involved in a sign and trade.


I'm all ears. Open to have my mind changed if you can provide tangible evidence.

Otherwise hampus lindholm is probably a realistic top end comparable

For the record, the rumours suggested would be a sign and trade.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

See I'm less certain they wouldn't move Byram than I am that the Devils wouldn't move Mercer.

Byram is RFA after next season, has been good but not great, his injury history will always be a question mark, and with Makar and Toews locked in I think he could become trade bait.

I think management would have preferred to move Girard but I think his recent issues off ice, combined with some rumors that the locker room really missed him when he was gone and that he's a glue guy for them could have changed things.

Byram is kind of at that "Draft Pedigree might be more valuable than he actually is as a player" point of the trade value curve and I think they'd look at moving him.

And Mercer is RFA after this season and is expected to get a healthy raise. With Hischier and Hughes already at centre maybe they don't want to allocate that many $'s to that position. Having said that, do they want to add that many $'s to the defense with Hanifin?

[Bonded]

Mercer straight across for Hanifin would be a great trade

[868904]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think Francis is just talking about the stuff we've previously heard from Noah before the deal fell apart.

Noah walked away from the deal, and the Flames pulled the deal. I'd be surprised if Noah sticks around at this point.

I'm sure Hanifin loves the money the Flames are throwing at him and he and his agent aren't sure they are going to get that in the Summer.

I don't see why he or any other top UFA would want to sign here other than for over market. This team isn't going to be a contender while that Huberdeau contract anchors the franchise.

Once again, its' the Flames having to pay over market to retain a guy.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by 868904

I'm sure Hanifin loves the money the Flames are throwing at him and he and his agent aren't sure they are going to get that in the Summer.

I don't see why he or any other top UFA would want to sign here other than for over market. This team isn't going to be a contender while that Huberdeau contract anchors the franchise.

Once again, its' the Flames having to pay over market to retain a guy.

I don't really agree with this. He has looked quite good for a while now, and the production is just starting to trickle in. If he can continue to improve his 200 foot game and the point production improves a bit, there's no reason why that contract is going to prevent the Flames being a contender. The part that will prevent the Flames from being a contender is no elite #1 centre and no elite #1 defenceman, so yeah - they have to address that.

I personally don't like the comparison (because they haven't won anything), but Dallas is in the thick of it and they're carrying Tyler Seguin AND Jamie Benn at $9.85M and $9.5M respectively.

Over Benn's last handful of years he has posted a .57PPG, .67PPG, .56PPG, .95PPG, and is currently putting up a .65PPG.

For Seguin, he's effectively been a 50 point player since 2019.

Huberdeau put up .69 PPG last year, and I think his game is on an upward trend right now. Huberdeau does not = doom. The lack of an elite #1 defenceman and centre? Yeah, those are the hurdles that need to be cleared.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Lots of competitive teams have carried dead cap and/or poor contracts. They didn't have the cap ceiling the Flames will have in the future.

I feel like the biggest hindrance of production is that Huberdeau plays with guys who don't capitalize well on what he does on the ice

Bringing new talent in and some changes in the core might unlock that offense. In the meantime he needs to just focus on doing things well away from the puck and limiting unforced giveaways.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by traptor

Pending UFA d-man*

And there's tangible examples to be referenced.

Exhibit A: hampus Lindholm.

Well there is no point in anyone discussing this with you because you can't get unstuck on the UFA part and don't seem to understand what a sign and trade or an extension negotiated means. Like I am not sure if you are just trolling here or what. Then the big defence of Spurs, is this his burner account? Like just weird