2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I laugh every single time that anyone thinks this is Brad’s fault.

Look at Huberdeau’s resume pre-Calgary Flame. He and Gaudreau were very comparable players, both had career years, great numbers on the only franchise they played on. If you’re giving Johnny 10.5 x 8 you’re giving Huberdeau the same contract.

This is all on Huberdeau. The money is there, HE has to be the one to perform. This is all on him.

Absolutely the wizard’s fault and everything else that put the Flames where they are today. Results count and he ####ed up badly.

It’s ridiculous there are still people defending him
The only joy is he is ####ing up Toronto now

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I laugh every single time that anyone thinks this is Brad’s fault.

Look at Huberdeau’s resume pre-Calgary Flame. He and Gaudreau were very comparable players, both had career years, great numbers on the only franchise they played on. If you’re giving Johnny 10.5 x 8 you’re giving Huberdeau the same contract.

This is all on Huberdeau. The money is there, HE has to be the one to perform. This is all on him.

Treliving gets the blame for setting up the conditions for the entire mess with his crappy UFA signings and coach hirings

[Ped]

Plus Gaudreau has been mostly terrible in Columbus, and Tkachuk, after a magical season that saw the Panthers not win the Cup, has all of 5 goals. Right now the Flames have the best player in the deal this year and that's Weegar.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, but those fans also detested Tkachuk and thought he wasn't as good as he was. Of course they are going to think that any star player from any other market was going to be better than Flames players who they all see as trash.

But they also don't like the Flames and want them to be on the losing end of every trade too. Much like how not many people on here will say the Oilers made a good or decent trade.

There's also a a lot of Canucks fans who even though they detest Tkachuk wish they would have drafted him. And I've seen Oilers fans admit they would love him if he played for them.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I laugh every single time that anyone thinks this is Brad’s fault.

Look at Huberdeau’s resume pre-Calgary Flame. He and Gaudreau were very comparable players, both had career years, great numbers on the only franchise they played on. If you’re giving Johnny 10.5 x 8 you’re giving Huberdeau the same contract.

This is all on Huberdeau. The money is there, HE has to be the one to perform. This is all on him.

It is Brads, or Edwards depending on what you believe, fault for thinking that the way to go was the try to compete route when it was clear as day the move was to rebuild.

Doubling down on that with the terrible Hubredeau deal, which even if he is scoring at a PPG pace isn't a good deal for us, and the Monahan trade/Kadri deal takes it a level of absolute incompetence.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

So they should have low balled him because they are taking a elite play maker and want to turn him into a 70 point grinder?

Silly take.

Should Mackinnon and Makar take less if they come to Calgary because the team is going to have them play a less offensive style?

Huberdeau out played his deal and got the market rate plus the Calgary bump for his production.

Putting gifted offensive players and destroying their confidence probably isn't the best way to start off with the organizations biggest investment ever.

You are just proving my point even more. They knew what kind of system they were going to play under Sutter and signed a player who had never played in that type system. Plus a numerous other factors that were working against Huberdeau that I can think of. Then on top they payed him like he was a 115 player. It's a managerial / ownership blunder.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ped

Plus Gaudreau has been mostly terrible in Columbus, and Tkachuk, after a magical season that saw the Panthers not win the Cup, has all of 5 goals. Right now the Flames have the best player in the deal this year and that's Weegar.

I have fantasy league interest in CLB, so I’ve watched some games and portions of games. I’d way rather have Huberdeau over Johnny.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Ped

Tkachuk, after a magical season that saw the Panthers not win the Cup, has all of 5 goals. Right now the Flames have the best player in the deal this year and that's Weegar.

This is a pretty bad take. Tkachuk already showed he can be a star player in Florida, he had a major injury and is clearly playing differently now as has been mentioned by many experts. So either he decided to change his game after consecutive 100 point seasons or he's still recovering. He's by far the best player in that deal.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Ped

Plus Gaudreau has been mostly terrible in Columbus, and Tkachuk, after a magical season that saw the Panthers not win the Cup, has all of 5 goals. Right now the Flames have the best player in the deal this year and that's Weegar.

So you’re saying if you had the chance you would not unwind everything that resulted in the current debacle? Mmm, not buying it.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Let me be clear, I’ll fault Brad for not at least seeing if Huberdeau was a good fit for this team before signing an almost-decade contract to a player we didn’t even know would/could fit in our system at the time. The minute Tkachuk was traded should have been the time a rebuild occurred.

But, we had a player who we believed would make the same impact as Johnny and signed him to the same deal, because well, his numbers showed (even before the 115 point season) that he is a winger that SHOULD earn this amount of money. After the contract is signed, it’s all on the player. I hope he succeeds but as of right now he’s struggling.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Absolutely the wizard’s fault and everything else that put the Flames where they are today. Results count and he ####ed up badly.

It’s ridiculous there are still people defending him
The only joy is he is ####ing up Toronto now

Not defending him , but I think ownership is as much to blame as him when it comes down to the hubby trade. I just don’t see edwards accepting the Carolina deal with the Florida deal on the table.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Spurs

It is Brads, or Edwards depending on what you believe, fault for thinking that the way to go was the try to compete route when it was clear as day the move was to rebuild.

Doubling down on that with the terrible Hubredeau deal, which even if he is scoring at a PPG pace isn't a good deal for us, and the Monahan trade/Kadri deal takes it a level of absolute incompetence.

As clear as day? I guess you can show that 100% of sportswriters and commentators thought it was a bad move.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

As clear as day? I guess you can show that 100% of sportswriters and commentators thought it was a bad move.

Where did I say sportwriters and commentators said it was a bad move? They get things wrong all the time.

Yes it was clear as day that the team should rebuild, that we didn't have the players to compete. Anyone who thought different was fooling themselves or just plain stupid.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Where did I say sportwriters and commentators said it was a bad move? They get things wrong all the time.

Yes it was clear as day that the team should rebuild, that we didn't have the players to compete. Anyone who thought different was fooling themselves or just plain stupid.

To be clear, are you suggesting predicting a teams success is easily done year to year and if a person isn’t able to do so ‘they’re fooling themselves or just plain stupid’?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Nobody - absolutely NOBODY - would accept any other deal over Florida's deal period. That was a massive overpayment at the time relative to every other deal. If you take the value of each offer, Florida's offer was much better.


Florida's 1st round pick upcoming.
Cole Schwindt - former 3rd round pick centre that was trending well and had size, and even earned an NHL call-up - certainly not an A-level prospect, but a decent prospect.
Weegar was worth at least a 1st and a 2nd round pick in value.
Huberdeau - 115pt season, 5.9 million expiring deal, and his 4th season in a row above a PPG. 2 firsts? That sounds low still.


Whether you try to win now, or you try to rebuild, that's was by far the right offer to accept. Hindsight shows that the rebuild path was the correct path to take. Imagine what Huberdeau would have went for with 50% retention. 50% retention on both Huberdeau and Weegar? Keep the Florida pick. Might have been looking at roughly 5 first round picks + of value right there to kickstart the rebuild.


Flames decided to go for it, and it proved disastrous. As soon as they decided to go for it, they had to re-sign those players. They had just had their two highest value players leave - one for free, an the other basically stomped his feet and demanded to go too. They weren't going to carry the risk of it happening again.


What would have been interesting is if during that dinner in Montreal, if Huberdeau wasn't convinced to re-sign. I can only assume he would have been dealt in that off-season, likely Weegar as well, the Monahan deal wouldn't have went through either. This team would have probably entered into a rebuild. What could have been? Heck, maybe Bedard would be a Flame today? Who the heck knows where it would have led to?


Anyway, that's getting beside the point. There was no other offer that came close to Florida's offer. Zito lost his mind that day and overbid for Tkachuk. Huberdeau + 1st was probably better than any other offer on the table in terms of value. Huberdeau had some serious value, and Treliving would have been an idiot not to take it. When we talk about the trade, Calgary won that trade.


Things didn't work out as we are all painfully well aware of, but Treliving won that trade that day. The rest was 'shoulda, coulda, didn't'. That's a different argument (and it is probably the more interesting conversation - Andersson with the longest and most expensive deal left on the Flames plus a lot of draft capital??? Toffoli with 2 years left on his bargain deal?? Markstrom fresh off a Vezina season, even with the negative series vs Edmonton? - so much there to dream about).



Bottom line is that Zito overpaid for Tkachuk in terms of value. He could have unloaded Weegar in a separate deal if he wanted to, making the Tkachuk acquisition much less expensive. Instead, he threw Weegar in, and that greatly tilted the value in Calgary's direction.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I laugh every single time that anyone thinks this is Brad’s fault.

Look at Huberdeau’s resume pre-Calgary Flame. He and Gaudreau were very comparable players, both had career years, great numbers on the only franchise they played on. If you’re giving Johnny 10.5 x 8 you’re giving Huberdeau the same contract.

This is all on Huberdeau. The money is there, HE has to be the one to perform. This is all on him.

Right. If Jack Han can pull apart how Gaudreau & Huberdeau are much different players, and create offence in much different ways…


You honestly do not think that the guy who is the chief talent evaluator and architect of roster construction should realize that maybe signing Jon to a franchise record contract before seeing him as a fit is terrible management.

But yeah, Not Brad’s fault.

https://open.substack.com/pub/jhanhk...utm_medium=web

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by TOfan

To be clear, are you suggesting predicting a teams success is easily done year to year and if a person isn’t able to do so ‘they’re fooling themselves or just plain stupid’?

I am saying that at the time of the trade you could see that the Flames were not good enough to compete and that the Hubredeau/Weegar additions were not going to change that.

It was a team that needed a rebuild and having a piece like Tkachuk would have been the perfect piece to start that process.

But to answer your question in general I think that in many cases it is easy to predict teams success year to year and with some it is not easy. Not a blanket answer for every single team, every single year.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Nobody - absolutely NOBODY - would accept any other deal over Florida's deal period. That was a massive overpayment at the time relative to every other deal. If you take the value of each offer, Florida's offer was much better.

That is not true at all, many people preferred the rumoured Necas deal from Carolina over Florida at the time, not just with hindsight.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Spurs

That is not true at all, many people preferred the rumoured Necas deal from Carolina over Florida at the time, not just with hindsight.

Stop making things up, that leak of that deal didn't come out until much later.

Also Tkachuk had a say in this, and it feels like it may have been Florida the whole time.

It was called the Summer of Brad for a reason. Many people thought he hit a home run, and he still may have.

If Tkachuk doesn't have that magical run last year with a hot goalie, and it on pace for 10 goals this year people would be looking at this differently.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Stop making things up, that leak of that deal didn't come out until much later.

Also Tkachuk had a say in this, and it feels like it may have been Florida the whole time.

It was called the Summer of Brad for a reason. Many people thought he hit a home run, and he still may have.

If Tkachuk doesn't have that magical run last year with a hot goalie, and it on pace for 10 goals this year people would be looking at this differently.

There is nothing made up people preferred the Necas deal over the Florida deal, that is true.

So the idea that nobody would take another deal over the Florida deal is completely false.

And your many people comment is far from everybody as the poster I responded to said. To pretend that everyone takes the Florida deal over the Carolina deal is false. That isn't even debatable.