Israel declares war on Hamas

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Language

There’s just as many “scholars” and “experts” that don’t believe it constitutes genocide. Answer my question from earlier. Is every human conflict in history where thousands of civilians have been killed (literally almost every one), an act of genocide?

Maybe you should “read” some of the “scholars” and “experts” that you disagree with so you can find the “answer” to your “question”

Originally Posted by Language

And regarding “from the river to the sea” - you know, when Hamas committed their slaughter on 10/7, and worldwide rallies started almost immediately with “river to the sea” chants, even before Israel launched any sort of counter offensive, it doesn’t take a genius or someone with a bit of common sense to see what that chant really stands for nowadays. What it meant 50 years ago when it was coined is irrelevant relative to how it’s being used today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s just it, right? It doesn’t take a genius or even someone with common sense to see it. It requires someone far enough removed from both to willingly ignore how many people are actually using the phrase today because they’ve decided the phrase can only really mean one thing, and it happens to be the thing that justifies their hatred of innocent people.

The reality is, whether you want to admit it or not, nuance exists. Someone can use the phrase without meaning it in the same way a terrorist means it, and Israel can be committing genocide without every conflict in the history of the world also being genocide. If you don’t believe either of those things can be true (even if you don’t believe they are), then you need to educate yourself on what these things mean and the situation and it’s history. If you believe they can be true, then your arguments are farcical because you know they hold no water and you’re making them anyway.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Pointman

It is perfectly possible to subdue terrorist groups or even peoples for that matter. Chechnya is a good example of that. It was carpet bombed into surrender and has been perfectly loyal ever since. ISIS was subdued. Massive war against ISIS did NOT create thousands of new terrorists. Nuking Japan did not create generations of Japanese looking for revenge on USA. Contrary, it created generations of peaceful, harmless Japanese. Carpet bombing Germany did not create generations of Germans wanting to join Nazi. Contrary, it created generations of Germans who hate Nazis and don't want to repeat their mistakes again. As history shows us on those examples, destroying Hamas will create generations of Palestinians who are looking to live on peace. That's human nature. When people are well beaten, they give up.

These are terrible comparisons which really only demonstrate what exact mental gymnastics you've done to yourself to become a supporter of genocide.

Chechnya has been under Russian military occupation, ruled by a warlord who's controlled by a dictator. That's how you have "peace" in Chechnya. Great model.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: while Chechnya is no longer in the headlines, the militant resistance of local independence fighters only really started to end by 2020s, so over a decade since the 2nd Russo-Chechnyan war. Order in the area is kept with things like killings, torture, "filtration camps", or in other words: never-ending violence towards the civilian population.

In the case of Germany and Japan, the citizens of both countries had full political rights in their own, democratic, economically independent countries, just like they were before the war. What made them peaceful wasn't carpet bombing, it was removing their warmongering genocidal far-right governments from power by military force.

So if you suggest that Germany and Japan show a path to lasting peace, you are not suggesting carpet-bombing Gaza, you are suggesting the military occupation of Israel, court-martialing Netanyahu and his cronies and forcing actual democracy in thw area by gunpoint. Possibly forcibly re-educating the Israeli population on what was done to a minority population in their names to make sure they never vote for another far-right politician, like what happened in Germany.

It's a bold position, but yeah, that might work. I don't think anyone in the west has suggested that yet.

[Beninho]

Nm

Tired of arguing. Looking forward to the end and total destruction of Hamas and hopefully a brighter future for the region

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and Hamas took over in 2006 in a democratically held election. The blockade began in 2007 to stop weapons being smuggled into gaza. I would say every country with a brain would also have enacted a blockade against a group smuggling weapons to harm its civilians. There has been no two state solution that has been accepted by Hamas or since that election so no idea what you are on about. The Palestinians were offered 93% of the West Bank and this deal was rejected in 2008.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/two-state-solution

Probably was a bad idea to elect a war mongering extremist group if a functioning society is what the Palestinians want.

That's not how actual independence works.
It doesn't really matter why Gazans were denied not just true autonomy, basic freedoms and a chance to a future.

Also, what's your excuse for West Bank? It's not under Hamas rule, yet they also don't have true autonomy, economic freedom etc. Jewish militants have been attacking Palestinian settlements constantly and have only increased their attacks now that the world is only looking at Gaza. 9 Arabs are dead in attacks by Jewish extemists and 182 have died in Israels anti-terrorist operations in the Eest Bank since the start of the operation.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...r-second-front

"traditional and social media networks have been flooded with videos of Jewish extremists attacking Palestinian residents, burning homes and vehicles, vandalizing businesses, destroying crops, threatening locals with weapons, imposing movement restrictions, and trespassing on homes, land, and natural resources. According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, violent acts by Jewish extremists increased to an average of seven per day after October 7 compared to three per day the previous month, and Israeli authorities have not disputed these figures."

You claim that the Palestinians don't want a 2-state solution, but remove any context from that statement as if Palestinians just randomly have that opinion.

They've seen what "a 2 state solution" looks like in reality, and what it means is still constant oppression.

Even if you think that oppression is justified, it's still oppression.

Arab Israelis have full rights, are in government, on the supreme court, even serve in the IDF. There are arab Israelis fighting in Gaza for the IDF as we speak. The only people who are limited to go anywhere in Israel are Jews going to the temple mount.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rJVoNmyCP

I wonder if these guys think they are second class citizens. Probably not. Arab Israelis have more rights than anywhere else in the middle east.

Arabs in Israel see themselves as 2nd class citizens. (And most Arabs choose to not serve in the IDF.) That's how reality works, not ny cherrypicking examples.

The argument you're making is literally the same people use to deny the existence of racism in the US.

If you argue that somehow Israel treats Arabs and Jews equally, can you show me the equally massive anti-terrorism operation against Jewish extemists? Seven attacks per day by Jewish militias on IDF controlled territories is something IDF should clearly respond to... if IDF was there to protect Jews and Arabs equally.

What do you suggest the Palestinians do about the constant Jewish extremists attacks, when the Israeli government isn't protecting them?

You claim attacking Gaza through a bombing campaign and denying the population of Gaza basic necessities like food, water and electricity is justified to end the threat of attacks on Jews, and another Israel supporter suggested that carpet bombing Gaza would work as a solution to end the long term threat to Jews.

So by this logic, Arabs should be equally justified to attack Israel until all Jewish extremists are wiped from existence, and carpet bombing Israel would work as a solution.

And then you guys are somehow outraged that people don't these views.

You are a supporter of one-sided mass violence as a defense policy. That's what you argue for as a "solution".

It's a popular idea, but not really something that I think is helpful to protect the Jewish population, in Israel or globally.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Itse

That's not how actual independence works.
Also, it doesn't really matter why Gazans were denies not just true autonomy, basic freedoms and a chance to a future.

Also, what's your excuse for Weat Bank? It's not under Hamas rule, yet they also don't have true autonomy, economic freedom etc. Jewish militants have been attacking Palestinian settlements constantly and have only increased their attacks now that the world is only looking at Gaza. 9 Arabs are dead in attacks by Jewish extemists and 182 have died in Israels anti-terrorist operations in the Eest Bank since the start of the operation.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/...r-second-front

"traditional and social media networks have been flooded with videos of Jewish extremists attacking Palestinian residents, burning homes and vehicles, vandalizing businesses, destroying crops, threatening locals with weapons, imposing movement restrictions, and trespassing on homes, land, and natural resources. According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, violent acts by Jewish extremists increased to an average of#seven per day#after October 7 compared to three per day the previous month, and Israeli authorities have not disputed these figures."

You claim that the Palestinians don't want a 2-state solution, but remove any context from that statement as if Palestinians just randomly have that opinion.

They've seen what "a 2 state solution" looks like in reality, and what it means is still constant oppression.

Even if you think that oppression is justified, it's still oppression.



Arabs in Israel see themselves as 2nd class citizens. (And most Arabs choose to not serve in the IDF.) That's how reality works, not ny cherrypicking examples.

The argument you're making is literally the same people use to deny the existence of racism in the US.

Way to not address anything i challenged you on in your initial posts while you then move the goalposts to talk about the west bank. Everything you said initially is not actually what happened. I also did not claim the Palestinians don’t want a two state solution, they just have rejected every single one. You drew that conclusion yourself which is pretty hilarious. How have they seen what a two state solution looks like when they have maintained an armed terror resistance for 75 years? Maybe stop attacking, that sounds like a genius idea to start. I have zero interest in arguing anymore or getting into a back and forth over topics i have already discussed on here. I have already mentioned that I am against the settlements and the violence occurring, I believe i have now stated that at least 3 times in this thread. I have not one time made an excuse for that. I believe what Israel offered the Palestinians in 2008 was more than reasonable with regards to the West Bank and should be the framework going forward. Regardless Hamas’s time is coming to an end, even though many posters like you want to give them a lifeline. Too bad.

Also, name one right Arab Israelis don’t have.

[Itse]

It's really quite pathetic that some people are still defending ths Netanyahu government for their decisions.

It's at this point obvious that unless the goal was a general genocide, the attack has already been a complete disaster by every other metric.

Israel has never been as globally unpopular, its international support has never been on shakier ground than it is now, the likelihood of more attacks in the future on Israel has only increased according to basically every analyst, and even pure unfiltered antisemitism is steadily growing in part due to the behavior and rhetoric of the Netanyahu government.

Netanyahu and his government have managed to turn massive global sympathy towards Israel after the Hamas attacks into global demands for economic sanctions, while making the long term security situation much, much worse.

It's been a long time since the Arab nations have been as united in their animosity towards Israel. The situation of the Palestinians hasn't had this much global sympathy in decades.

US is the only significant supporter it currently has standing on the diplomatic stage, and even they are very close to buckling under internal and external pressure to join in condemnation of Israel.

Unless you count the mass killing of Palestinians and emptying Northern Gaza of it's population as goals on their own, Israel has already lost "the war" in Gaza.

Yet some people still support the Netanyahu policies.

Hamas is three times as popular among Palestinians now than it was right before this latest round of violence started with the Hamas attacks, and looking at all of the above, they are probable very happy with what they did.

Netanyahu has given Hamas everything they could have wanted short of just arming the next wave of attacks himself.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Itse

...and even pure unfiltered antisemitism is steadily growing in part due to the behavior and rhetoric of the Netanyahu government.

See, here's the thing about this "antisemitism" that seems to be growing. It really isn't antisemitism that is growing, it is anti-Israel sentiment that growing by leaps and bounds. The problem is that Judiasm and Israel are so inextricably linked together, and Jewish support for the "Jewish state" are so strong, that Jews everywhere are automatically identified as supporters of the Israeli action and the subjugation of the Palestinians.

I had this point driven home after a dinner with my wife's cousin who is a (converted) Jew. She was very upfront about the challenges/backlash she is facing right now as being a Jew and immediately being accused of supporting apartheid and the genocide happening to Palestinians, which she does not. She is actually on the side of the Palestinians and acknowledged the bad situation they find themselves in their homeland. She has some very nuanced views that fluctuate from side to side on the larger issue but her views are unpopular in her religious community. In the same breath the fact that she is a Jew makes her unpopular in her community at large because people assume she is a staunch supporter of what is going on. She says that prior to the start of this "war" that being a Jew didn't matter in her community. After the swing in violence and the tactics used against the Palestinians by the IDF she said the hateful rhetoric stepped up and her religious community became pariahs within the larger community as people conflated being a Jew as an immediate supporter of the Israeli government, which was not the case. She said there are always going to be those that support Israel because of the ethno-religious connection, but that is not representative of the whole religious community. She stated this perceived blind support of the Israeli government is where the supposed "antisemitism" is coming from. She said it is an anti-Israel sentiment and not a true antisemitism sentiment, which she has felt in the past.

I'm glad my wife dragged me to this dinner with her cousin because it shed new light on this issue and clarified some things. You can be anti-Israel and not be antisemitic. Antisemitism is a crutch and a catchall defense for those who support Israel. They know the power of that claim and they hit you over the head with it when you are critical of Israel. It shouldn't be that way because being a Jew does not make you an Israeli and you should not blindly support the political position of a country just because of your religious identification. You also shouldn't be accused of supporting that political entity just because you of a particular religious group. What is happening across the world is a pushback against Israel and that pushback is being labeled as antisemitism because of the tight association between being a Jew and the Jewish majority of Israel. We need to develop a more nuanced view and understand there is a difference and not all Jews blindly support Israel in what is going on.

[Itse]

Both antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments are growing. The latter is justified (and growing a lot faster), the former isn't, but especially when you look outside the western world there's no denying that outright antisemitism is on the rise, especially among muslims.

Much of the reason for them being connected is of course that the state of Israel pushes the idea that Israel=jews very hard all over the world.

They are of course lying, but they're still doing it, and it does work.

Really the fact that Israel is doing it just underlines how the government of Israel does not actually care about the safety of the Jewish diaspora.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Itse

Both antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments are growing. The latter is justified (and growing a lot faster), the former isn't, but especially when you look outside the western world there's no denying that outright antisemitism is on the rise, especially among muslims.

Much of the reason for them being connected is of course that the state of Israel pushes the idea that Israel=jews very hard all over the world.

They are of course lying, but they're still doing it, and it does work.

Really the fact that Israel is doing it just underlines how the government of Israel does not actually care about the safety of the Jewish diaspora.

How many former members of the Israeli government and respected academics have come out and made clear, point blank, that claims of anti-semitism are purposefully employed to shield Israel from criticism? It has to be in the double digits at least.

You can see it in this thread, not just with in-thread examples but examples brought up here. The rise of actual anti-semitism, while absolutely a real concern and something everyone has a responsibility to shut down together, pales in comparison to the rise of claims of anti-semitism tied only to criticism of Israel. People use it to deflect criticism, justify Islamophobia and hatred, excuse atrocities, etc.

Someone asked a question along the lines of “how can we not see this as anti-semitism” despite being presented with a logical, fact-based explanation of exactly how. And I think your last sentence nails it: because the Israeli government (and some pro-Israeli groups) do not care about Jewish people, and would rather manipulate them and fear monger to whip up support for endless killing.

Even look at the way October 7 is viewed. People don’t even cite it as a day to mourn. They trot it and the word “Hamas” out every time they have some killing of innocent Palestinians to justify. These are people that see mass death as both the ends and the means.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

See, here's the thing about this "antisemitism" that seems to be growing. It really isn't antisemitism that is growing, it is anti-Israel sentiment that growing by leaps and bounds. The problem is that Judiasm and Israel are so inextricably linked together, and Jewish support for the "Jewish state" are so strong, that Jews everywhere are automatically identified as supporters of the Israeli action and the subjugation of the Palestinians.

I had this point driven home after a dinner with my wife's cousin who is a (converted) Jew. She was very upfront about the challenges/backlash she is facing right now as being a Jew and immediately being accused of supporting apartheid and the genocide happening to Palestinians, which she does not. She is actually on the side of the Palestinians and acknowledged the bad situation they find themselves in their homeland. She has some very nuanced views that fluctuate from side to side on the larger issue but her views are unpopular in her religious community. In the same breath the fact that she is a Jew makes her unpopular in her community at large because people assume she is a staunch supporter of what is going on. She says that prior to the start of this "war" that being a Jew didn't matter in her community. After the swing in violence and the tactics used against the Palestinians by the IDF she said the hateful rhetoric stepped up and her religious community became pariahs within the larger community as people conflated being a Jew as an immediate supporter of the Israeli government, which was not the case. She said there are always going to be those that support Israel because of the ethno-religious connection, but that is not representative of the whole religious community. She stated this perceived blind support of the Israeli government is where the supposed "antisemitism" is coming from. She said it is an anti-Israel sentiment and not a true antisemitism sentiment, which she has felt in the past.

I'm glad my wife dragged me to this dinner with her cousin because it shed new light on this issue and clarified some things. You can be anti-Israel and not be antisemitic. Antisemitism is a crutch and a catchall defense for those who support Israel. They know the power of that claim and they hit you over the head with it when you are critical of Israel. It shouldn't be that way because being a Jew does not make you an Israeli and you should not blindly support the political position of a country just because of your religious identification. You also shouldn't be accused of supporting that political entity just because you of a particular religious group. What is happening across the world is a pushback against Israel and that pushback is being labeled as antisemitism because of the tight association between being a Jew and the Jewish majority of Israel. We need to develop a more nuanced view and understand there is a difference and not all Jews blindly support Israel in what is going on.

Growing antisemitism is not a real thing according to Lanny, even tho actual evidence proves otherwise. Your posts get better and better. Thank you for your brilliant anecdotal evidence from the one supposed Jewish friend you have who is a converted Jew. Thanks Lanny, you are truly a genius and always insightful. You and your wifes converted Jewish cousin definitely have all the acumen needed to be able to speak for Jews about what is antisemitism and what is not.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/31/p...sis/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/how-su...ld-2023-10-31/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/pol...s-report-finds

https://www.voanews.com/amp/antisemi...h/7306956.html

Probably not enough Al-Jazeera articles for you

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Growing anti-semitism is not a real thing according to Lanny, even tho actual evidence proves otherwise. Your posts get better and better. Thank you for your brilliant anecdotal evidence from the one supposed Jewish friend you have who is a converted Jew. Thanks Lanny, you are truly a genius and always insightful

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/31/p...sis/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/how-su...ld-2023-10-31/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/pol...s-report-finds

https://www.voanews.com/amp/antisemi...h/7306956.html

Probably not enough Al-Jazeer articles for you

I believe there is growing antisemitism, so I agree with you there. If I were Jewish I would be super mad at Israel for this.

Israel's government attaches itself to Judaism. I'm not falling for it: the government is a political organization and I completely separate it from a religion. They're not a special country that gets to be two things simultaneously and, again, I'm consistent in this as I refuse to cut any other governments any slack or accommodations if they behave in a way they think is justified because of any religious affiliation.

But.......just look at you. You're the poster child of not separating Israel's position as a country and political actor from the predominant religion of the country. Well, congratulations, Israel. Much of the world sees you the same way. And that country - which you've inextricably tied to a religion - is behaving like unhinged monsters and murdering the people they have penned into a shthole. Now people don't just think Israel's government is a POS (that's where I stop), but they are also lumping in Jewish people as POSs as well (this I don't do).

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's really quite pathetic that some people are still defending ths Netanyahu government for their decisions.

It's at this point obvious that unless the goal was a general genocide, the attack has already been a complete disaster by every other metric.

Israel has never been as globally unpopular, its international support has never been on shakier ground than it is now, the likelihood of more attacks in the future on Israel has only increased according to basically every analyst, and even pure unfiltered antisemitism is steadily growing in part due to the behavior and rhetoric of the Netanyahu government.

Netanyahu and his government have managed to turn massive global sympathy towards Israel after the Hamas attacks into global demands for economic sanctions, while making the long term security situation much, much worse.

It's been a long time since the Arab nations have been as united in their animosity towards Israel. The situation of the Palestinians hasn't had this much global sympathy in decades.

US is the only significant supporter it currently has standing on the diplomatic stage, and even they are very close to buckling under internal and external pressure to join in condemnation of Israel.

Unless you count the mass killing of Palestinians and emptying Northern Gaza of it's population as goals on their own, Israel has already lost "the war" in Gaza.

Yet some people still support the Netanyahu policies.

Hamas is three times as popular among Palestinians now than it was right before this latest round of violence started with the Hamas attacks, and looking at all of the above, they are probable very happy with what they did.

Netanyahu has given Hamas everything they could have wanted short of just arming the next wave of attacks himself.

Hamas will be very happy in the ground, where they are currently being placed in as they get beaten to a pulp in Gaza. Sucks for you but none of these supposed countries you are speaking about will do anything. Hamas will be obliterated and maybe the Palestinians will make a better choice for their future statehood.

The only country with actual sway are the Americans. I will let Israel know how screwed they are because Itse says the world is going to gang up on them from his sofa near the Arctic circle.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I believe there is growing antisemitism, so I agree with you there. If I were Jewish I would be super mad at Israel for this.

Israel's government attaches itself to Judaism. I'm not falling for it: the government is a political organization and I completely separate it from a religion. They're not a special country that gets to be two things simultaneously and, again, I'm consistent in this as I refuse to cut any other governments any slack or accommodations if they behave in a way they think is justified because of any religious affiliation.

But.......just look at you. You're the poster child of not separating Israel's position as a country and political actor from the predominant religion of the country. Well, congratulations, Israel. Much of the world sees you the same way. And that country - which you've inextricably tied to a religion - is behaving like unhinged monsters and murdering the people they have penned into a shthole. Now people don't just think Israel's government is a POS (that's where I stop), but they are also lumping in Jewish people as POSs as well (this I don't do).

I do not care what you think. I have Israeli friends and Family, many of which are fighting for the IDF currently. I care about their safety and Israels survival more than how Israel is viewed by citizens of countries who have less than zero influence into what is going on and what will happen in the future. I see the far left group is out in full force today so adios, you can see Hamas getting their snot kicked in here if you want to actually be updated about what is actually going on in Gaza.

https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/

[PsYcNeT]

Ethnostates are bad, actually

EDIT: I really wonder if this whole thing is some giga-brain play by Likud in the end.

Make the rest of the world turn on Jews with your horrific actions, constantly and insistently associate Jewishness with Israel, then telling all diaspora Jews that they're only safe in Israel, grow your ethnostate, ???, profit

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Beninho

I do not care what you think. I have Israeli friends and Family, many of which are fighting for the IDF currently. I care about their safety and Israels survival more than how Israel is viewed by citizens of countries who have less than zero influence into what is going on and what will happen in the future. I see the far left group is out in full force today so adios, you can see Hamas getting their snot kicked in here if you want to actually be updated about what is actually going on in Gaza.

https://israelpalestine.liveuamap.com/

Yes, it's very obvious you only care about one group of people and you don't care about the lives or property of other groups of people. You are literally cheering for people to die because they were born on the other side of a manmade line in the sand and believe a different book of BS than you believe.

You, sir, are not behaving like a rational and caring human. Tribal to the core to the detriment of others not like you. It would be my nightmare to be so blindly indoctrinated.

You also keep confusing Hamas with Palestinians. Please stop because it just adds a whole extra layer of evil to your worldview and it's super off-putting and has no place on this forum (or anywhere else).

[blankall]

I'm really not seeing these dramatic shifts in opinion that others are. It seems like those with an anti-Israel stance still have that stance, and vice versa. In fact, I'd bet if we were to drag up the last Israel thread, it would be all the exact same posters picking the same sides. You'd probably see the same thing if you did any survey of social media too.

Another thing to account for is that many people who think Israel's actions are justified, aren't going to go around celebrating it, the way the anti-Israel posters do. What's going on in Gaza is absolutely horrid. The question is can any modern nation exist with Iran providing a death cult billions of dollars to attack them and who is to blame for the current situation.

One thing I see is that the discourse on Anti-Semitism is happening in a way that it hasn't happened before. People are genuinely questioning what's happening in the protests, in social media and on campuses. I definitely do not think that Israel actions are creating more anti-semites.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by blankall

One thing I see is that the discourse on Anti-Semitism is happening in a way that it hasn't happened before. People are genuinely questioning what's happening in the protests, in social media and on campuses. I definitely do not think that Israel actions are creating more anti-semites.

Debatable, but it's definitely emboldening existing ones.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yes, it's very obvious you only care about one group of people and you don't care about the lives or property of other groups of people. You are literally cheering for people to die because they were born on the other side of a manmade line in the sand and believe a different book of BS than you believe.

You, sir, are not behaving like a rational and caring human. Tribal to the core to the detriment of others not like you. It would be my nightmare to be so blindly indoctrinated.

You also keep confusing Hamas with Palestinians. Please stop because it just adds a whole extra layer of evil to your worldview and it's super off-putting and has no place on this forum (or anywhere else).

Interesting because I am pretty sure I said Hamas, the terror group currently waging war with Israel. Do i care about Hamas? Absolutely not. Do I wish for their total destruction? Absolutely. This is the only thing your side can say. “Civilians are dying, are you human, you have no empathy” when my posts are literally talking about Hamas, the group that started this war, that is embedded within the Palestinian population and are currently the ones responsible for putting their civilian population at risk. Virtue signalling like usual, no point in talking to such high moral beings like yourself.

You are indoctrinated, drinking the Hamas PR pill. Maybe Bagor can share you his subscription to Al Quds network

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Debatable, but it's definitely emboldening existing ones.

Those people were always "emboldened". I also think you absolutely have your head in the sand if you think that things are shifting towards some kind of anti-Israeli left. Unfortunately support for Israel (and some reason freedom of religion for Jews) has gotten tied up in the left/right divide. The governments who support the left are being ousted all over the world, particularly in Europe. In Canada the only thing keeping the Conservatives, who have an extremely pro-Israel foreign policy, out of power is the fact than an election can't take place.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by blankall

Those people were always "emboldened". I also think you absolutely have your head in the sand if you think that things are shifting towards some kind of anti-Israeli left. Unfortunately support for Israel (and some reason freedom of religion for Jews) has gotten tied up in the left/right divide. The governments who support the left are being ousted all over the world, particularly in Europe. In Canada the only thing keeping the Conservatives, who have an extremely pro-Israel foreign policy, out of power is the fact than an election can't take place.

The fact that you see it as a left/right dichotomy issue is a bit myopic tbh.

Regardless, anti-zionism has been a longstanding tentpole of the left, or at least for the last 30-40 years. Ghouls will tell you this is the same thing as anti-semitism however because it's politically convenient for them.