Israel declares war on Hamas

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Hamas controls the Israeli military?! Holy crap, things are crazier there than I thought.

Not Israel’s fault Hamas wants civilians to die, this is an inherent part of their structure. It gets people like you to scream from your sofa “ahhh look Israel wants civilians to die, it’s a genocide!! Ceasefire now!” They are terrible at war but great at PR and using human shields. You have fallen in to their trap.

Israel is using ground troops to prevent further civilian casualties, by the end of this war hundreds of IDF soldiers will be killed with thousands with PTSD. If Israel truly was genocidal and did not care about Palestinians civilians they could bomb Gaza to oblivion for a year, keep their soldiers out of harms way and then go in, but they are not doing that. Most countries in this same situation would not have sent in ground troops at this junction of the war.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Not Israel’s fault Hamas wants civilians to die, this is an inherent part of their structure. It gets people like you to scream from your sofa “ahhh look Israel wants civilians to die, it’s a genocide!! Ceasefire now!” They are terrible at war but great at PR and using human shields. You have fallen in to their trap.

Israel is using ground troops to prevent further civilian casualties, by the end of this war hundreds of IDF soldiers will be killed with thousands with PTSD. If Israel truly was genocidal and did not care about Palestinians civilians they could bomb Gaza to oblivion for a year, keep their soldiers out of harms way and then go in, but they are not doing that.

I've fallen into the trap of thinking the Israeli army killing civilians is Israel's doing? I'm such a dupe.

And thoughts and prayers to all those poor Israeli soldiers who will have PTSD following their murderous rampage. They're definitely the ones I feel sorry for in this situation.

Guy. I'm not even sure if you're for real. The mental gymnastics are physics defying.

[Wormius]

I dunno. It’s the 21st century. Snipers have been able to take out a target from over 3km away, yet somehow it’s this difficult to avoid killing civilians?

I don’t think anyone *wants* civilians to be killed, but at the same time it looks like nobody is too bother when it happens, cause apparently modern warfare is tricky.

If this is as good as it gets, spending any percentage of your country’s GDP seems like a waste of money.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I've fallen into the trap of thinking the Israeli army killing civilians is Israel's doing? I'm such a dupe.

And thoughts and prayers to all those poor Israeli soldiers who will have PTSD following their murderous rampage. They're definitely the ones I feel sorry for in this situation.

Guy. I'm not even sure if you're for real. The mental gymnastics are physics defying.

I don't agree with the attrocities happening on the ground and there are no winners here. However, I think it's clear that Hamas' cowardly leadership which was up to recently hiding in luxury accomodations and resorts in Qatar have been happy to live in their opulence while sacrificing their own people for the cause. The entire operation was designed to galvanize Israel into a violent reprisal in which they willfully knew would cause massive civilian casualties just so that they could trigger an international condemnation of Israel.

[chedder]

Any truth to this report or is it just typical National Post?

Says 75% of Palestinians agree Hamas should have done what they did on Oct 7. And they would overwhelmingly vote them back into power if they had to vote right now.

If there is any truth to this sympathy for Palestine won't be very high.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/...srael-on-oct-7

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I've fallen into the trap of thinking the Israeli army killing civilians is Israel's doing? I'm such a dupe.

And thoughts and prayers to all those poor Israeli soldiers who will have PTSD following their murderous rampage. They're definitely the ones I feel sorry for in this situation.

Guy. I'm not even sure if you're for real. The mental gymnastics are physics defying.

It is not really that hard to comprehend and there is no mental gymnastics being played. Hamas is a terror organization who puts their population in harms way because they are tyrannical Islamist terror group who is identical to Isis. They do everything they possibly can to hide behind their citizens and to create world sympathy. They do not fight like a conventional army but like cowards. But I guess you think it is ok to use schools, refugee camps, and hospitals as places to harbour weapons, rockets, and military installations.

And your lack of humanity is showing, you should feel bad for 18-25 year old young men who are risking their lives, sacrificing limbs, and their mental health to protect their country, many of which are doing their mandatory military service. I highly doubt you would show anywhere near the same bravery if called upon. Yes you are a dupe

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, so didn't you just prove my point? The Jews moved to Israel. Beninho said the population of Jews in Arab countries dropped 99% since 1948 because of genocide.

Also, if Arab nations are bad actors for making life unbearable for Jews decades ago, isn't Israel a bad actor currently for making life miserable for Palestinians literally today, which seems to be the more pressing problem than stuff that happened before most Palestinians were even born?

And if confiscating Jewish property is bad (it is), then isn't it also bad the Israelis keep stealing land and property from non-Jews (again, today...not years ago)?

If Israel were to declare all land ownership illegal, I would agree with you.

If you are referring to the West Bank, the Palestinian Authority has made sale of land to Jews punishable by death. Any land that can be proven to be privately owned by Arabs in the West Bank cannot be used by Israeli settlers. A land dispute between two nations is not the same as removing all land owned by private citizens of a minority group.

You could draw equivalencies, as what actually occurred can be seen as a population swap. Jews moved from Arab countries and resettled in Israel. Arabs moved from what became Israel and, if they had them, were stripped of their citizenship and land rights in other Arab countries so they could be used as pawns to fight a war of attrition against Israel.

There's also the issue of Israel responding to various invasions. The minority citizens of, for example, Libya were not militarily invading Libya.

So yes, there are similarities, but the situations are not the same.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Beninho

It is not really that hard to comprehend and there is no mental gymnastics being played. Hamas is a terror organization who puts their population in harms way because they are tyrannical Islamist terror group who is identical to Isis. They do everything they possibly can to hide behind their citizens and to create world sympathy. They do not fight like a conventional army but like cowards. But I guess you think it is ok to use schools, refugee camps, and hospitals as places to harbour weapons, rockets, and military installations.

And your lack of humanity is showing, you should feel bad for 18-25 year old young men who are risking their lives, sacrificing limbs, and their mental health to protect their country, many of which are doing their mandatory military service. I highly doubt you would show anywhere near the same bravery if called upon. Yes you are a dupe

He's the one who brought up the point on mental health... Sometimes I wonder if you even read half of what is wrote?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't agree with the attrocities happening on the ground and there are no winners here. However, I think it's clear that Hamas' cowardly leadership which was up to recently hiding in luxury accomodations and resorts in Qatar have been happy to live in their opulence while sacrificing their own people for the cause. The entire operation was designed to galvanize Israel into a violent reprisal in which they willfully knew would cause massive civilian casualties just so that they could trigger an international condemnation of Israel.

I agree, too, and I even said it within a day or two of the Hamas attack. They played Israel like a fiddle. This government was going to respond wholly inappropriately, disproportionately and kill a bunch of people who had nothing to do with anything.

The strategic, humane and best option for the long-term security of Israel was to take out Hamas leadership covertly in their luxury villas. Instead, Israel is killing a bunch of civilians and destroying infrastructure because...well, because their government is a terrible one and they are incapable of basic strategy.

So now there is international condemnation of Israel because there should be. They didn't have to take the obvious bait, but they did. Now they have to live with the consequences of their evil actions - actions that far surpass the evil directed at them by Hamas.

And lol, you have deep thinkers like Beninho cheering them on. Just wild.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I agree, too, and I even said it within a day or two of the Hamas attack. They played Israel like a fiddle. This government was going to respond wholly inappropriately, disproportionately and kill a bunch of people who had nothing to do with anything.

The strategic, humane and best option for the long-term security of Israel was to take out Hamas leadership covertly in their luxury villas. Instead, Israel is killing a bunch of civilians and destroying infrastructure because...well, because their government is a terrible one and they are incapable of basic strategy.

So now there is international condemnation of Israel because there should be. They didn't have to take the obvious bait, but they did. Now they have to live with the consequences of their evil actions - actions that far surpass the evil directed at them by Hamas.

And lol, you have deep thinkers like Beninho cheering them on. Just wild.

And they have effectively solidified the creation of their next enemy even if Hamas is exterminated. Which is the young generation of the Gaza population who have lost their family and friends and seen the destruction caused by Israel. That hatred does not go away. The cycle continues...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Beninho

It is not really that hard to comprehend and there is no mental gymnastics being played. Hamas is a terror organization who puts their population in harms way because they are tyrannical Islamist terror group who is identical to Isis. They do everything they possibly can to hide behind their citizens and to create world sympathy. They do not fight like a conventional army but like cowards. But I guess you think it is ok to use schools, refugee camps, and hospitals as places to harbour weapons, rockets, and military installations.

And your lack of humanity is showing, you should feel bad for 18-25 year old young men who are risking their lives, sacrificing limbs, and their mental health to protect their country, many of which are doing their mandatory military service. I highly doubt you would show anywhere near the same bravery if called upon. Yes you are a dupe

Protect their country? What are you talking about? They are on the offensive in another land right now. WTF, dude.

I do feel bad for the individual soldiers, TBH. They are just pawns and I understand there is military service requirements in Israel; however, my point was I feel worse for the victims of their violence (civilians in Gaza) than for the perpetrators of the violence (Israelis).

I can empathize with individual soldiers, but I can also empathize with the victims of those same soldiers' violence.

It's a failing on your part if you can't feel bad for both groups.

Also, these Israeli soldiers wouldn't have to worry about PTSD if the Israeli government didn't send them into Gaza to kill people. That's basic, dude. If Israel stopped murdering people right this second there would be fewer Israelis (and Palestinians if we are going to pretend for the sake of argument all human lives are of equal value) coping with the mental health fallout of engaging in murdering people.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Protect their country? What are you talking about? They are on the offensive in another land right now. WTF, dude.

I do feel bad for the individual soldiers, TBH. They are just pawns and I understand there is military service requirements in Israel; however, my point was I feel worse for the victims of their violence (civilians in Gaza) than for the perpetrators of the violence (Israelis).

I can empathize with individual soldiers, but I can also empathize with the victims of those same soldiers' violence.

It's a failing on your part if you can't feel bad for both groups.

Also, these Israeli soldiers wouldn't have to worry about PTSD if the Israeli government didn't send them into Gaza to kill people. That's basic, dude. If Israel stopped murdering people right this second there would be fewer Israelis (and Palestinians if we are going to pretend for the sake of argument all human lives are of equal value) coping with the mental health fallout of engaging in murdering people.

They are killing terrorists who use civilians as human shields. This is a defensive strategy in response to a literal attack from Hamas, Israel is not trying to occupy Gaza but eradicate Hamas. The ground troops are not mass murdering civilians, they are in one one combat with Hamas. Your posts are deluded af

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Leondros

He's the one who brought up the point on mental health... Sometimes I wonder if you even read half of what is wrote?

Sarcasm must be hard for you to understand if you think thats what he meant, jeezus

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Leondros

And they have effectively solidified the creation of their next enemy even if Hamas is exterminated. Which is the young generation of the Gaza population who have lost their family and friends and seen the destruction caused by Israel. That hatred does not go away. The cycle continues...

That was happening either way.

Iran is giving billions of dollars to Hamas to teach school children how to use weapons and that they will go to paradise by murdering Jews.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Beninho

That is where we obviously differ, I view Hamas as the group culpable for the deaths of civilians. Israel is not targeting civilians but targeting Hamas, which becomes increasingly difficult when they are embedded within population centre’s, use human shields, and do not wear military uniforms. It is a horrible aspect of this war, but I don’t see how you rid Hamas without harming civilians. Can Israel do more to protect civilians? Possibly, but Hamas makes it incredibly difficult.

But if you are asking me if I am against civilians dying of course I am. I just view Hamas responsible for their deaths, you view it as Israel.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess. Gross, but you don't really seem capable of thinking in any way that would make you a human.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Protect their country? What are you talking about? They are on the offensive in another land right now. WTF, dude.

It's another land as much as if it was Chestermere that had raised generations of children to view Calgarians as subhuman and continued smuggling in weapons from the US to fire into Calgary. It's another land as much as if an attack came in from Forest Lawn that killed thousands of people and took many more hostages. The geography is so close that Hamas and the Palestinians who desired resorting to violence have been constantly attacking Israel and its always been an existential threat across the street for the past 70 years.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess. Gross, but you don't really seem capable of thinking in any way that would make you a human.

Sure then virtue signaller

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Sure then virtue signaller

That's some deep reflection on your own flaws.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Leondros

And they have effectively solidified the creation of their next enemy even if Hamas is exterminated. Which is the young generation of the Gaza population who have lost their family and friends and seen the destruction caused by Israel. That hatred does not go away. The cycle continues...

The new medical acronym from this war. WCNSF. Wounded child no surviving family. .

I fear we're moving onto the next stage of the genocide with mass deaths from hunger, disease and lack of basic supplies. Then we can get to listen to blankall blaming the WHO and UNICEF.

[Doctorfever]

I think most agree that trying to minimize civilian casualties should be a priority. So I can understand some of the mud slinging at Israel. However, isn’t Hamas still firing rockets into Israel trying to kill civilians?