2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[FlamesAddiction]

My biggest beef with Treliving is that I think he was probably looking for an exit strategy for a while and it affected the types of trades and contracts he gave players. It's like a politician spending into debt when they already know they aren't planning to run for re-election in a few years.

Treliving seems like a nice guy at the street level, and all the stories about him on the personal side of things seems to agree with that, but I think people under estimate him at the business level. He's a pretty ambitious and shrewd guy, and I really get the feeling his plan was always to use the Flames as a stepping stone.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He had some great trades. I'd say he won more than he lost.

UFAs haunted him.

He over bet on a core.

Drafting was great.

Didn't have enough picks betting on said core.

Bet on Gaudreau and was wrong.

Since he left I think the biggest strike against him was the reveal that he didn't collaborate with his management team much.

I don't think we have to name a street after him in Calgary but the wizard drive by nonsense we see on this site if way over the top.

I completely agree with your summary above, makes sense. On the bolded, I wonder though, does any GM (or at least one that was around at the beginning of a core turn over) actually have option but to bet on their core? You kind of only get one shot as a GM once you start. Hindsight allows us say he shouldn't have, but really Treliving built most of that core through drafting and trades. You kind of have to bet on your core at that point, give them the shot to show you they can do it. If you don't, should you really get shot as a GM to build it again when it doesn't work out? And it's not like that core didn't show indications it might have it. I'm not looking to make excuses, but I also think that Monahan injury degradation was a huge blow to the chances or Treliving's core having a chance to work out. How much better would the Flames have been two years ago (when they won the division) if we'd have had actual Monahan as well?

Point being, I don't think we should critique him for betting on the core, not sure any GM has any other choice once they put the team together like he did.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Nah , look at what he left for Conroy. He deserves every blame.

Deep analysis.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He had some great trades. I'd say he won more than he lost.

UFAs haunted him.

He over bet on a core.

Drafting was great.

Didn't have enough picks betting on said core.

Bet on Gaudreau and was wrong.

Since he left I think the biggest strike against him was the reveal that he didn't collaborate with his management team much.

I don't think we have to name a street after him in Calgary but the wizard drive by nonsense we see on this site if way over the top.

I don't disagree with anything here except I kind of get a chuckle at the wizard drive by nonsense a little bit. Some fans were able to build a full time hobby around praising or defending most everything Treliving did, to the point where Wizard was in fact how he was viewed by some.

A short sarcastic reference to this doesn't bother me too much.

I always thought he stepped into a pretty good situation. A team with no cap issues, some decent young players, some tradeable assets and manageable expectations. And he didn't really do much with it.

But this is beating a dead horse territory.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

My biggest beef with Treliving is that I think he was probably looking for an exit strategy for a while and it affected the types of trades and contracts he gave players. It's like a politician spending into debt when they already know they aren't planning to run for re-election in a few years.

Treliving seems like a nice guy at the street level, and all the stories about him on the personal side of things seems to agree with that, but I think people under estimate him at the business level. He's a pretty ambitious and shrewd guy, and I really get the feeling his plan was always to use the Flames as a stepping stone.

One quote from Conroy that really struck me about Treliving, was Conroy talking about Brad doing things like coaching interviews behind closed doors:

Originally Posted by Conroy with Rob Kerr

Brad kind of did it, you close your door, and you do Zoom calls you're on phone calls you do all that so you don't see how many people you're talking to behind the scenes. Yeah, you know, you just... I wasn't in that process of hiring the coaches and going through the process kind of.

Brad did that by himself, so you know. I think we did a little bit differently this time I had the, uh, everybody in the office in there and we all, you know, listen so then we could all talk about it afterwards, and kind of figure out what, uh, we liked about the candidates what we did and what strength weaknesses and, uh, you know, did it more

It seems to me that Brad liked to do things by himself. Which could lead to more mistakes IMO. Conroy did mention being involved in trade talks as an AGM, but said it wasn't the same thing.

PS: youtube transcripts are great, makes searching for a tidbit from an interview so much easier.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He had some great trades. I'd say he won more than he lost.

UFAs haunted him.

He over bet on a core.

Drafting was great.

Didn't have enough picks betting on said core.

Bet on Gaudreau and was wrong.

Since he left I think the biggest strike against him was the reveal that he didn't collaborate with his management team much.

I don't think we have to name a street after him in Calgary but the wizard drive by nonsense we see on this site if way over the top.

He was called the Wizard when he was here. That was way over the top at the time when folks called him a wizard for landing Monahan to the same contract every other RFA signed that offseason but for a bit more money. His wizard rep was way overblown when he was here. It may be over the top to bring it up after he has left but I suspect it is just a continuation of the years of calling the guy the wizard, that was more or less his name in some quarters on this site for years.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Neimala on the table then?

Could be? I just listed the pieces I heard are off the table.

[FlamesAddiction]

The idea that Brad was already planning to exit while also being the guy whose job it was to convince guys like Gaudreau and Tkachuk to stay, doesn't sit well with me. How hard did he try if he himself was not planning to stay? Did Tkachuk say he didn't want to extend, and Treliving was just like, yeah OK then.

I recall near the end of the season, Treliving was spotted at a practice just causally chatting at the sidelines with those guys, which apparently was unusual the way the media reported it. It makes me wonder what those conversations were. Did they know Treliving was also not re-signing? Did that affect their choice to leave?

I am not saying I know one way or another, but I think it is very possible.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He had some great trades. I'd say he won more than he lost.

UFAs haunted him.

He over bet on a core.

That is my biggest issue with him. He over bet on the core with UFAs signings which cost the opportunity at a longer term contract with Tkachuk and he really went all in with the Monahan/Kadri debacle. Stangely, he didn't extend the courtesy to Gaudreau in the offseason before he left. If Tre thought he was worth building around he got cute and burned, and if he thought Gaudreau wasn't worth building around he should have traded him. Bad management.
You are also forgetting coaching hires. Should have really just be canned when Sutter was forced on him.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I recall near the end of the season, Treliving was spotted at a practice just causally chatting at the sidelines with those guys, which apparently was unusual the way the media reported it. It makes me wonder what those conversations were. Did they know Treliving was also not re-signing? Did that affect their choice to leave?

I am pretty sure that one was at the end of the last season and not the offseason where Tkachuk and Guadreau left.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He had some great trades. I'd say he won more than he lost.

UFAs haunted him.

He over bet on a core.

Drafting was great.

Didn't have enough picks betting on said core.

Bet on Gaudreau and was wrong.

Since he left I think the biggest strike against him was the reveal that he didn't collaborate with his management team much.

I don't think we have to name a street after him in Calgary but the wizard drive by nonsense we see on this site if way over the top.

True, and he wasn’t patient enough to let the core reveal or grow into what they would be. It’s on him for rushing his assessment and not having the proper evaluation. His chief job is the #1 talent evaluator of the organization. He sets the table and decides.

The poison pill in his asset management with trades and free agent signings was the Hamonic trade. He tried to recover the cap space from the overvalued Brouwer contract with an undervalued Hamonic contract and paid for it. Then again he wasted savings on a bet on Neal while not betting on Tkachuk the same summer.

Both him and Burke have an oversimplified or outdated approach or philosophy on the game. Drafting Hunter Smith in the 2nd round and signing Ryan Reeves are prime examples.

However Brad did a lot of things right on the development front. Based on the number of picks the Flames had their development protocol improve immensely under his leadership.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

He was called the Wizard when he was here. That was way over the top at the time when folks called him a wizard for landing Monahan to the same contract every other RFA signed that offseason but for a bit more money. His wizard rep was way overblown when he was here. It may be over the top to bring it up after he has left but I suspect it is just a continuation of the years of calling the guy the wizard, that was more or less his name in some quarters on this site for years.

That's fair.

Wasn't a term I used, but I guess if you didn't like it that way there's a right to us it now.

But honestly I don't mind the average person using the name. It's the drive by specialists that make me nuts.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The idea that Brad was already planning to exit while also being the guy whose job it was to convince guys like Gaudreau and Tkachuk to stay, doesn't sit well with me. How hard did he try if he himself was not planning to stay? Did Tkachuk say he didn't want to extend, and Treliving was just like, yeah OK then.

I recall near the end of the season, Treliving was spotted at a practice just causally chatting at the sidelines with those guys, which apparently was unusual the way the media reported it. It makes me wonder what those conversations were. Did they know Treliving was also not re-signing? Did that affect their choice to leave?

I am not saying I know one way or another, but I think it is very possible.

I just can't see it.

The guy was an honest, hard working GM. There is little doubt in that. Can't see him looking for an exit. Seems like he and Sutter got to a me or him point and the Flames waffled on it until he chose to leave.

How I see it anyway.

[Erick Estrada]

My opinion but I think his move to the Leafs was something in his back pocket for years. It was only a matter of the Leafs not going far in the playoffs during his last year with the flames for the stars to align. I mean the Leafs barely interviewed anyone for the job as it was Brad's all along as I recall he got the only live interview. That should tell you all you need to know about how long that was in the works for.

Do I think with one foot out the door he was more reckless with his moves as Flames GM? No as he was always pretty reckless with his decision making. Buying out Brouwer and immediately going back to the well for Neal. Giving up a 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick for Calle ####ing Jarnkrok. So many reckless moves using draft picks as trade currency for depth players. For one of the younger GM's he's very old school with his love of thugs, depth forwards, and big defensemen and really never aligned with today's trend of building out through the draft as he was all about quick fixes and selling draft picks for depth. I wanted him fired years before he left because it was clear to me his vision for team building isn't going to get it done in today's NHL. He's going to leave a crater sized mess in Toronto when he's done there as well.

[Ped]

Sure but the Leafs were originally going to bring Dubas back - and then did an about face. So if that was Treliving's plan, he got extremely lucky.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

My opinion but I think his move to the Leafs was something in his back pocket for years. It was only a matter of the Leafs not going far in the playoffs during his last year with the flames for the stars to align. I mean the Leafs barely interviewed anyone for the job as it was Brad's all along as I recall he got the only live interview. That should tell you all you need to know about how long that was in the works for.

Do I think with one foot out the door he was more reckless with his moves as Flames GM? No as he was always pretty reckless with his decision making. Buying out Brouwer and immediately going back to the well for Neal. Giving up a 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick for Calle ####ing Jarnkrok. So many reckless moves using draft picks as trade currency for depth players. For one of the younger GM's he's very old school with his love of thugs, depth forwards, and big defensemen and really never aligned with today's trend of building out through the draft as he was all about quick fixes and selling draft picks for depth. I wanted him fired years before he left because it was clear to me his vision for team building isn't going to get it done in today's NHL. He's going to leave a crater sized mess in Toronto when he's done there as well.

If you know who you want to hire it doesn't take that long.

Treliving was a clear candidate the second he stepped down in Calgary.

You could be right, but nothing in the timeline really proves anything.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

My opinion but I think his move to the Leafs was something in his back pocket for years. It was only a matter of the Leafs not going far in the playoffs during his last year with the flames for the stars to align. I mean the Leafs barely interviewed anyone for the job as it was Brad's all along as I recall he got the only live interview. That should tell you all you need to know about how long that was in the works for.

Do I think with one foot out the door he was more reckless with his moves as Flames GM? No as he was always pretty reckless with his decision making. Buying out Brouwer and immediately going back to the well for Neal. Giving up a 2nd, 3rd and 7th round pick for Calle ####ing Jarnkrok. So many reckless moves using draft picks as trade currency for depth players. For one of the younger GM's he's very old school with his love of thugs, depth forwards, and big defensemen and really never aligned with today's trend of building out through the draft as he was all about quick fixes and selling draft picks for depth. I wanted him fired years before he left because it was clear to me his vision for team building isn't going to get it done in today's NHL. He's going to leave a crater sized mess in Toronto when he's done there as well.

I hear you on wanting him fired for years. I did as well at various points but he was always decent at making certain moves while he was put in a tough position, so much so I personally was indifferent if he stayed. He did make some good trades but his love of idiots who were outdated to the game, as well as his overpay in these situations, or his recent double down through large contracts, always struck a nerve. Now that he’s someone else’s problem and made a couple of those problems already, I can look at it clearer and am happy he let himself out. He was hard working mediocre employee.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by butterfly

A 1st round pick? Do you think there's a single team in this league that would sign Markstrom at 3x$3M right now for free, let alone giving up a 1st round pick?

Umm, yes. Markstrom is an NHL starter - he has value. At $3M, he has significant value.

The only people around hockey who don't think so are (some) Flames fans.

[GioforPM]

Being a GM is a little like kayaking down a rough river. You have some choice in equipment, depending on your budget, you can try to steer, with varyoing degrees of success based on your skill, but sometimes the current or unexpected weather force you into situations you have to deal with, or capsize in. And sometimes there just nothing to be done but go with the flow.

Pretty much all long term GMs have had great moments and bad ones and you have to wait until the end of their career to fully assess them. And plenty of guys who did bad jobs in one place did way better in others (and vice versa).

[Enoch Root]

regarding Coleman:

if you can get a 1st, sure, you have to consider that, but I think he has huge value as a leader during the transition years, and the Flames would be better off looking to move him in a couple years, not now.