2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hamonic was on a very cost controlled contract which added value to him too.

His contract was 5.14% of the cap at the time, which in today’s dollars going into next season would be about 4.5 million. A modern day cost effective contract of similar length would be Artem Zub. Doubt the Sens are trying to trade him but also doubt that they could get a 1st and two seconds for him.

Last year close to an equivalent in value would be Jacob Chychrun and he did go for the same package. But one could argue Chyrchrun was objectively better the Hamonic was at the same time in their contract cycle.

At the time it seemed like a slight overpay. I just hope we don’t make a similar mistake in a couple years.

[BigFlameDog]

Hamonic was not great when he got here but I think he had some personal stuff going on did he not? The snowball took off after he got his jaw broken.

[GreenLantern2814]

A 1st and two 2nds can and should get you a Hamilton/Hanifin/Lindholm level player in just about any off season context.

No reason to ever limit yourself to someone like Travis Hamonic because of his contract.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

LOL revising history? This is my post from the Hamonic trade thread. I knew at the time he was playing poorly for the Islanders. I was bang on BTW.

You said the guy would have to play better than he did for the Islanders. Not seeing where you said he had played badly. I credit you that you call him a 4th defenceman. As I say I didn't see enough Islanders games to know the player. The poster who says Treliving thought he was getting a Tanev is likely correct. But between injuries and getting his face caved in by Gudbransson, Hamonic did lose some of his heart and soul as a Flame and now hangs onto a roster spot in the league. You could argue that trading a package like that for Tanev may not be worth it either, especially for a team who had not established themselves as a top 10 team.

Criticizing the behavior of the Flames to send out picks for immediate help and to do so for guys who don't stand out as game changers is fair. We will see if Conroy can make any progress in addressing that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It also shows how a player and organization can work together to (ab)use LTIR in order to get what they want.

Anybody who thinks teams and players don't abuse this to A) get rest for the player, but he's not really as hurt as is claimed, and B) add to the roster because now you can go over the cap and then magically bring everybody back onto the roster come playoff time, is living in denial IMO

The Lightning and Golden Knights are masters at this, and have won 3 of the last 4 cups.

From the league’s point of view, why is this a problem? Every team uses LTIR to skirt the spirit of the rules. The owners themselves don’t seem to have a problem with it. Most fans don’t care. The only people I’ve ever seen complain about it are hockey nerds on forums like this.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

From the league’s point of view, why is this a problem? Every team uses LTIR to skirt the spirit of the rules. The owners themselves don’t seem to have a problem with it. Most fans don’t care. The only people I’ve ever seen complain about it are hockey nerds on forums like this.

Did I say it was a problem?

I said anyone says it doesn't happen is mistaken, in my opinion.

I've complained about it in the past, but as you said, clearly nobody that matters seems to give a #### so it won't change, so c'est la vie.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hamonic was on a very cost controlled contract which added value to him too.

He wasn’t though. He was coming off a disastrous year where he had a trade request in. He came to Calgary after they paid top pairing D acquisition price to get him. They didn’t even protect their pick!

Hamonic came in and billed as a top pairing D man making under $4M for 3 years but he actually was an overpaid bottom pairing Dman who was expected to be a 3-4. He ruined Brodie in his first year here and had half this board ready to be done with Hanifin after 2 years with him. Hanifin looks like a completely different player with Tanev/Andersson and Brodie looked back to his former self when he was out back with Gio.

Hamonic was an absolute disaster that likely will be looked back as Treliving’s worst move unless they can be up giving up an even better pick to the Habs for the Monahan trade.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Rhett I think was different. His story is that the NHL sent a doctor to confirm. I think back then it was a lot more strict. The NHL of late is just going through the motions because so many teams are at the cap and a lot of teams can only function because they take on LTIR retirement contracts. Players don't care that GMs are abusing the system, because they get paid.

I don't think it's any different. I think the Warrener situation (and others) showed the league that every player who has been around for a long time is likely playing through stuff that a doctor will sign-off on as career-ending.

Once they accepted "I'm allergic to my equipment" as an excuse, all bets are off.



In Tootoo's case, he was on a one-year league-minimum contract, so they weren't really getting any savings by burying him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

A 1st and two 2nds can and should get you a Hamilton/Hanifin/Lindholm level player in just about any off season context.

No reason to ever limit yourself to someone like Travis Hamonic because of his contract.

Not really a fair comparison of a rental player vs. a player signed to a decent contract for a number of years.

TB gave up 2 first round picks for Hagel. Chicago had no reason or desire to trade him, and TB made a offer they could not refuse.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No offense while you take a dig at me? No problem Bingo.

You have a negative angle on things; are you debating that?

If you agree then there was literally nothing offensive about what I said. If you don't agree I should make sure I'm not along in my summary for sure.

Not sure I'd call a pretty easy observation a dig regardless.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He wasn’t though. He was coming off a disastrous year where he had a trade request in. He came to Calgary after they paid top pairing D acquisition price to get him. They didn’t even protect their pick!

Hamonic came in and billed as a top pairing D man making under $4M for 3 years but he actually was an overpaid bottom pairing Dman who was expected to be a 3-4. He ruined Brodie in his first year here and had half this board ready to be done with Hanifin after 2 years with him. Hanifin looks like a completely different player with Tanev/Andersson and Brodie looked back to his former self when he was out back with Gio.

Hamonic was an absolute disaster that likely will be looked back as Treliving’s worst move unless they can be up giving up an even better pick to the Habs for the Monahan trade.

I'm certainly not tryin to suggest the Hamonic trade was a good one. Was just adding the contract stuff to the discussion about why there seemed to be at least two teams with similar offers at the time.

I think the view at the time was a cost controlled 2/3 defenseman, which had value.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm certainly not tryin to suggest the Hamonic trade was a good one. Was just adding the contract stuff to the discussion about why there seemed to be at least two teams with similar offers at the time.

I think the view at the time was a cost controlled 2/3 defenseman, which had value.

I also think that Treliving was actively chasing 'intangibles' that he deemed the roster to be missing.

He tried to address it with Troy Brouwer as well. He was targeting players with good locker room reputations.

(not defending either move - both were awful, but he was definitely trying to add 'something' to the locker room)

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I find it funny people are still defending the wizard

And of all trades, they have to defend the Hamonic’s deal. The wizard didn’t do his homework. The guy was already down hill before the trade.

‘The wizard’ didn’t do his homework.


First of all, you’re singling out one person on that decision. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to go back over the past handful of pages to find a comment from yourself that it was Chris Snow who stopped Treliving from acquiring Ristolanien……but Chris Snow had no involvement in acquiring Hamonic?….that makes sense. Keep bending it the way you want, I suppose.

Also, Hamonic was 26 at the time of the trade with term and under $4M/season. I bet Treliving and his hockey ops team fid their homework. By what measure did he not do his homework?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You have a negative angle on things; are you debating that?

If you agree then there was literally nothing offensive about what I said. If you don't agree I should make sure I'm not along in my summary for sure.

Not sure I'd call a pretty easy observation a dig regardless.

Sorry Bingo not going to get dragged into your positive/negative fan nonsense. It gets tiring for everyone.

[BrownDrake]

Treliving was the boss and the buck stops there. He made some good trades, some bad ones and like a lot of GM's a fair number of bad UFA signings. We had very disappointing playoff success over his tenure in Calgary. The big acid test is, was the club in better shape when he left it than when he arrived and from that alone I'd say his time here was a failure.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It also shows how a player and organization can work together to (ab)use LTIR in order to get what they want.

Anybody who thinks teams and players don't abuse this to A) get rest for the player, but he's not really as hurt as is claimed, and B) add to the roster because now you can go over the cap and then magically bring everybody back onto the roster come playoff time, is living in denial IMO

The Lightning and Golden Knights are masters at this, and have won 3 of the last 4 cups.

But how does it show “abuse”? The guy legitimately had a shoulder problem. More rest = more time to heal. The “rest” you are talking about is healing time for their body. From injuries. I don’t understand what people want or how they expect it to be policed when nobody is playing a full season without having something happen that any normal doctor would say “rest that and let it heal”.

[PepsiFree]

Things like “abuse” are also really ill-defined.

Player A and B both have the same injury with the same timeline for return. Both players make the same amount of money and are top 3 on their team in terms of production (previous season). The timeline for both to return is 4-5 months. Both players are in minimum playing condition by month 4, but would benefit from an extra month.

Player A’s team is a playoff lock, so Player A returns at 5 months, coinciding with the start of the playoffs.

Player B’s team is just outside the playoffs, so Player B returns at 4 months to help with the final push.

Is one of these scenarios clearly abuse?

Is it only abuse if Team A trades for a player at the deadline to replace Player A?

Considering we have players like Monahan, who probably could have benefitted from extended healing time but never took it, would it have been abuse if he did? Or would it only have been abuse if the Flames had signed a player to allow him to take that extra time (therefore making themselves stronger come playoff time)?

[Blaster86]

Hamonic was a perfectly serviceable NHLer. He's also a hypocritical #### and I'm glad his career is mostly remembered for negative stuff.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Hamonic was a perfectly serviceable NHLer. He's also a hypocritical #### and I'm glad his career is mostly remembered for negative stuff.

Its petty of me but I'm 100% in agreement with this.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Hamonic was a perfectly serviceable NHLer. He's also a hypocritical #### and I'm glad his career is mostly remembered for negative stuff.

It's also nice that Ottawa is so irrelevant that we can talk about his career in the past tense even though he has played every game this season.