2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Ped]

Originally Posted by bluejays

4) Leafs are seen as one of the favourites

In what universe outside Leafland?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by bluejays

I've mentioned it about a half dozen times here, that Toronto will not be trading Nylander.
1) Teams don't trade away point producers when they're contending, even at risk of losing them for nothing
2) He's been their best player this year
3) He's well liked
4) Leafs are seen as one of the favourites
5) Trading him would upset his teammates


There is almost no chance he's dealt. No matter how people like to slice the story, the Leafs will not deal him.

You are probably correct, my intel on the Leafs is they want to sign Nylander but they are not close on term and money so things can go sour. I would definitely not say that he won't be traded though, BT still has the Gaudreau situation fresh in his mind and I don't think he will allow such a valuable asset walk as rental no matter what position the team is in. The Leafs have plenty of offence besides Nylander, what they don't have is defence and a true #1 goaltender. If they are still not close as we get close to the trade deadline or if someone makes an offer that addresses their needs I think there is a good chance they pivot from signing him. I think if the Flames offered that package that was speculated on earlier in the thread BT would absolutely jump all over that. The Leafs are much more of a contender with the additions of Hanifin, Tanev, and Lindholm than Nylander and Brodie whose game has fallen off a cliff.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The anti rebuild crowd always points at past Buffalo and past Edmonton regimes as to why it won't work. In response to that I'd say that building something takes time, and there's never any guarantee, but to use Edmonton or Buffalo as examples is to cite the worst case scenario. The Oilers and Sabres struggled because they were the worst two managed teams in the NHL, not because they rebuilt.

Those who oppose the idea of rebuilding seem to believe there's a lack of honour in it, but really I just see it as impatience.

People don't believe that tearing it down is the ultimate easy, guaranteed fix. They see it as a way forward that we haven't taken before, and quite frankly we're sick and tired of the current way this team runs. This mediocre season that we're currently mired in is exactly what pro-rebuild fans don't want anymore. The way that it was approached has been a waste of time. "We have a good team" Bean said. No, you misjudged your roster (and it was painfully obvious). This is a mediocre team with no elite talent.

What teams that have retooled on the go without an elite core have ANY actual success that is better than what the Flames have achieved in recent years? None of them have won the Stanley Cup, which has to be the ultimate goal.

Well, no, the “rebuild crowd” just have a very narrow definition of a rebuild (as evidenced by the notion that the Flames have never done one, despite coming out of one in the last decade) and the Oilers and Sabres are brought up because they’re the two teams that still fit the narrow definition while being complete failures.

There’s more than one way to rebuild/retool/whatever. And if you’re going to complain about people using the worst case scenario to support their point, you can’t then use the best case scenario to support yours… especially considering most teams trend closer to the worst case scenario.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Redrum

There is middle ground between diving for 1st OA and not making terrible signings to be better now. I'm hoping the Flames are at least not at the latter end of the spectrum anymore.

I don't think they have to go for 1st OA, just stop burning money and assets(including cap) by the truckload.

It would be peak Flames if they signed a few UFAs in the offseason to longterm contracts, had to sign guys like Zary, Wolf and Coronato(next year) to short term contracts and then lost them to UFA status in 5 years. I don’t think that will happen and I am hoping Conroy knows how far they are from competing but signing James Neal’s ghost and subsequently not having the space to sign a young stud longterm would be in keeping with the franchise history.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Why would we want a 27 year old signing here? Bye. You're traded.

Cause we signed a couple that were much older for longer?

[Flamesfan05]

Vladar and Tanev

For 1st and Robertson


Make it happen. The wizard is in desperate/panic mode

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Look at the roster and consider what it's going to look like without Tanev, Hanafin, and Lindholm. This team is heading to for a term of multiple seasons at the bottom of the NHL standings and there's not a lot that Conroy can do about it. You can't be retooling when you have one of the worst rosters in the NHL. It's going to be a rebuild whether the organization likes it or not.

Correct. But trading for players who help the retool vs. helping the rebuild simply helps to keep the team mediocre but drafting outside the top 10. I agree Calgary can’t do an effective retool regardless. But it will stifle the rebuild.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Vladar and Tanev

For 1st and Robertson


Make it happen. The wizard is in desperate/panic mode

What will the Leafs do when Woll comes back with Vladar? Too much cap to deal with for perhaps only a few weeks. Plus, Vladar may well not be an upgrade.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

What will the Leafs do when Woll comes back with Vladar? Too much cap to deal with for perhaps only a few weeks. Plus, Vladar may well not be an upgrade.

Agreed. If the Leafs were to go after one of our goalies it would be Markstrom.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

What you are saying is that you want the team to make the right decision all the time and not make mistakes. That’s unreasonable.

No, I want them to stop making the WORST POSSIBLE decision every time, which is absolutely the case over the last little while. Signing Lindholm would've fallen into that category, and it seemed like a certainty for a while. Now I'm hoping they aren't making those types of decisions anymore. Don't need perfect decision making to see that one.

I'd rather they lose him for nothing. Not a great decision to let it get that far, but light-years better than yet another insane contract.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Cause we signed a couple that were much older for longer?

That's something you want happening again? That is why we find ourselves where we are.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Agreed. If the Leafs were to go after one of our goalies it would be Markstrom.

Markstrom would be a perfect fit for Toronto - they’d be much better off going into the post season with a reliable starter locked up for two more years.

These other stopgaps… they ain’t it.

The secret to goaltending in Toronto is to actually be good enough to warrant the attention that gets paid to the #1G of the Maple Leafs.

It’s why the last time they truly mattered, they had Curtis Joseph (followed by Belfour) - guys have to know going into that environment that they have the game worthy of the spotlight.

Literally nobody they’ve employed since 2005 has been up to the challenge.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Well, no, the “rebuild crowd” just have a very narrow definition of a rebuild (as evidenced by the notion that the Flames have never done one, despite coming out of one in the last decade) and the Oilers and Sabres are brought up because they’re the two teams that still fit the narrow definition while being complete failures.

There’s more than one way to rebuild/retool/whatever. And if you’re going to complain about people using the worst case scenario to support their point, you can’t then use the best case scenario to support yours… especially considering most teams trend closer to the worst case scenario.

I was responding to this:

People have this strange belief if you tear it down and rebuild that eventually equals success, actually teams that retool on the fly have a much more success rate.

I'm not complaining about anything. I didn't cite any 'best case scenario' in response, I asked for some examples of good retooling on the fly without elite cores.

I think the organization's goal is probably to win a Stanley Cup - I don't buy into the 'strictly profit' train of thought that some have criticized the Flames ownership for pursuing, largely because outside of franchise evaluation - the Flames aren't really a revenue generator for ownership. So if the goal is to win a Stanley Cup, I think the one unifying trait that all Champions have is to be one of the best managed teams in the league.

So, step one is to build a top tier managerial team. Hopefully we have that, too early to tell. One thing I believe we do have though is a very strong drafting/amateur scouting practice.

Step two, is for that managerial team to build a foundation that provides stability - that's year in and year out playoff appearances, giving you a shot to win every year/gain experience in the playoffs. The Flames have not accomplished this since the 1989 Stanley Cup window. Why? Because they've never had a foundation that could deliver that.

What is a foundation that's worthy of building upon?

I think that boils down to two things:

1. Elite #1 Defenceman
2. Elite #1 Centre

Those two positions are probably the best indicator of sustainable success in the NHL.

The Flames have neither of those players, so then you begin looking at what is the most likely way to acquire those players. That's the draft. They very rarely get traded or hit free agency, but when they do - they have not, in our lifetime, landed in Calgary. So if trading for those players hasn't worked, and signing them in free agency hasn't worked - that leaves the draft (which, cool - that I believe to be an organizational strength).

What's the most dependable way to draft those players? It's to draft at the top of the draft - and, to give yourself as many bullets in the chamber to try and find them throughout the draft. Draft high, draft often, and draft well - that's the best approach. The Flames are in a great spot to do pretty much all of that this season - sell the UFAs for picks (so don't get side tracked by pieces for "right now"), continue to push the effective youth you have found already and then really capitalize on the next few drafts.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

What will the Leafs do when Woll comes back with Vladar? Too much cap to deal with for perhaps only a few weeks. Plus, Vladar may well not be an upgrade.

Woll has a much higher ceiling than Vladar.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Woll has a much higher ceiling than Vladar.

How do you figure?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Look at the roster and consider what it's going to look like without Tanev, Hanafin, and Lindholm. This team is heading to for a term of multiple seasons at the bottom of the NHL standings and there's not a lot that Conroy can do about it. You can't be retooling when you have one of the worst rosters in the NHL. It's going to be a rebuild whether the organization likes it or not.

If they fill that cap space with UFAs, and guys like Zary, Pelletier, and Coronato develop well, they will probably be a bubble team against next season. Look at the rosters of the teams at the bottom of the standings this season - they’re bad. I don’t see the Flames having a roster that bad next season.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

How do you figure?

Woll's stats are significantly better than Vladar by any measure.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If they fill that cap space with UFAs, and guys like Zary, Pelletier, and Coronato develop well, they will probably be a bubble team against next season. Look at the rosters of the teams at the bottom of the standings this season - they’re bad. I don’t see the Flames having a roster that bad next season.

Hopefully they trade Tanev and Hanifin this season for picks. They can then regroup on the backend by signing one or two of the top free agent dmen. Unfortunately there are only about 6 or 7 good dmen in that group so the competition will be stiff.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

How do you figure?

How do you not figure? Wolf has franchise goalie potential.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How do you not figure? Wolf has franchise goalie potential.

They were talking about Woll from Toronto.