2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I’m actually still luke warm on Hanifin, so if the Flames do extend, my judgement would be reserved based on what the deal looks like.

But not sure contract extensions should be viewed all in the same bucket. Hanifin is legit top 4 D and 26. Extending him is not the same as extending older players or more lower line up players (Zadorov) to long term extensions.

I think we know what the extension is, if it happens.

8 Years, $7.5M AAV.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

If this org is changing direction on major extensions based on a few games then we’re in for the longest and darkest fan timeline. That’s clown franchise behaviour and I sure hope that info is wrong

It's more than a few games. The Flames after a slow start with a new defensive system are playing like one of the top teams in the NHL over an extended period of time, beating quality opponents as well. If you can maintain that level of play why would you sell off a core piece that is still young enough to be a long term fixture? The idea is to entertain and win hockey games.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well this is what my "battle" with Spurs was about

par for the course though

What are you talking about?

That wasn't what we were discussing at all.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Same could be said about your posting history

Not exactly the most popular takes over the years

I like Estradas takes. They are a lot more grounded than some posters on this forum.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Does this refute what Ruttiger said though?

He said that Hanifin isn't going to have value of a #1 defenseman because of a short stretch where he has played well. The fact he could play on the top pair of some of the weakest bluelines in the league isn't going to make other teams overpay for him.

He has a long history of what he is as a defenseman and that is what will determine his value more than anything.

Of all the weird takes on Hanifin, the weirdest is that, because he has been in the league a long time, he is what he is. When the forum was discussing Valimaki last year and prior, many suggested we should trade Hanifin, because 'he is what he is', whereas Valimaki had lots of upside. When I and others pointed out that Hanifin is only one year older than Valimaki, the rebuttal was that Hanifin had already played lots of NHL games, and therefore he was done getting better.

One of the stupidest takes I've seen on here (which is saying something).

And now here we are a year or two later, and Hanifin is still improving (pro tip: everyone can improve). And yes here we are, with posters sticking with the 'long history of what he is'.

No, he is in the process of taking his game to another level. His play late last year (as Bingo pointed out), and this year (after a slow start), is the best hockey we have ever seen from him. The Hanifin we have seen in the last handful of games has been really good, arguably the best defenseman on the team.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Of all the weird takes on Hanifin, the weirdest is that, because he has been in the league a long time, he is what he is. When the forum was discussing Valimaki last year and prior, many suggested we should trade Hanifin, because 'he is what he is', whereas Valimaki had lots of upside. When I and others pointed out that Hanifin is only one year older than Valimaki, the rebuttal was that Hanifin had already played lots of NHL games, and therefore he was done getting better.

One of the stupidest takes I've seen on here (which is saying something).

And now here we are a year or two later, and Hanifin is still improving (pro tip: everyone can improve). And yes here we are, with posters sticking with the 'long history of what he is'.

No, he is in the process of taking his game to another level. His play late last year (as Bingo pointed out), and this year (after a slow start), is the best hockey we have ever seen from him. The Hanifin we have seen in the last handful of games has been really good, arguably the best defenseman on the team.

LOL

Reading is hard.

If saying that teams will value a player on what he has shown over a long period of time versus a short period of time is the strangest or even dumbest take you have seen then you either don't read much, have no idea how trades work or are trying hard to create something that wasn't said.

I am not surprised based on some of your others posts and your willingness to misrepresent what people say so you can rant but it is still funny nonetheless.

[dammage79]

Yes yes, now everything is bogged down by Spurs. Stop feeding its ego everyone. Fire cannot live without oxygen.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yes yes, now everything is bogged down by Spurs. Stop feeding its ego everyone. Fire cannot live without oxygen.

Nothing is bogged down by me.

I said that teams aren't going to give up value on Hanifin based on a small sample size. That isn't a controversial statement in any way. But because some people want to create made up arguments they take the thread off course.

Blame the people causing the problem if you want to have a little cry about people posting on a message board whose purpose is for discussion.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, he is in the process of taking his game to another level. His play late last year (as Bingo pointed out), and this year (after a slow start), is the best hockey we have ever seen from him. The Hanifin we have seen in the last handful of games has been really good, arguably the best defenseman on the team.

No he is not taking his play to another level, that is a flat out lie. His play at the end of last year and so far this is not above what it has been for the most part of his career. He has been the same 2/3 guy all year as he has for the most part of his career.

Being arguably the best defenseman on the team is great for the team but considering the other options doesn't really increase his value to teams with much better options than the Flames have.

[Infinit47]

Hanifin skates and moves well so barring a major injury I think he has many good years left. He is already defensively sound, but since defense is so cerebral dmen can keep getting better at the "thinking" part of the game as they get older, often becoming very effective well into their 30's.

Signing him to 8x7.5mil is a no brainier to me. Even if you decide to go full rebuild I think he is quite tradable at that price. He's a defensively responsible 40pt dman who plays all situations and can eat minutes. He will be signed through his entire prime at a time when we expect the cap to go up significantly.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Why is it an either or proposition?

We can keep Hanifin and still trade Lindy and Tanev.

I don’t understand why you have to be in one camp or the other.

Keep the players that want to be here long term and jettison those who don’t.

I guess it's semantics but that isn't a retool to me.

We definitely could keep hanifin and move Tanev and lindholm but in my mind that's not a re-anything. You're changing out one aging top 6 forward and one aging top 4 both of which are on expiring contracts.

That's just a natural roster turnover that most clubs, even successful ones go through. e.g you wouldn't say the Avs retooled after not re-signing Kadri.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Hanifin skates and moves well so barring a major injury I think he has many good years left. He is already defensively sound, but since defense is so cerebral dmen can keep getting better at the "thinking" part of the game as they get older, often becoming very effective well into their 30's.

Signing him to 8x7.5mil is a no brainier to me. Even if you decide to go full rebuild I think he is quite tradable at that price. He's a defensively responsible 40pt dman who plays all situations and can eat minutes. He will be signed through his entire prime at a time when we expect the cap to go up significantly.

His prime is coming to an end. He will likely have a couple of near-prime years left. If it's quite tradeable, how much do you think a team would give up for a 27.5-year-old Hanifin at 8x$7.5M this coming July?

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/wh...poorly-so-fast

[looooob]

Originally Posted by traptor

I guess it's semantics but that isn't a retool to me.

We definitely could keep hanifin and move Tanev and lindholm but in my mind that's not a re-anything. You're changing out one aging top 6 forward and one aging top 4 both of which are on expiring contracts.

That's just a natural roster turnover that most clubs, even successful ones go through. e.g you wouldn't say the Avs retooled after not re-signing Kadri.

I think if you let them all walk to UFA and don't trade them (either because you are going for it or capped out- I think Col Kadri was both of those) then that is what you describe


trading Lindholm, Tanev (for example ) if/while team was at or near a playoff spot, is of course, not only wise , but assuming it is for a combination of picks and useful youth is a re- something I think (retool, refocus, redesign, I dunno)? your terminology may vary


I happen to be in the keep Hanifin camp, and I get how that in part puts the brakes on this being a total rebuild

[looooob]

Originally Posted by butterfly

His prime is coming to an end. He will likely have a couple of near-prime years left. If it's quite tradeable, how much do you think a team would give up for a 27.5-year-old Hanifin at 8x$7.5M this coming July?

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/wh...poorly-so-fast

he's from the McDavid/Eichel/Marner/Rantanen/Connor et al draft class. they may not be improving further, but I don't think league wide this is a cohort being dismissed as post/near prime?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Of all the weird takes on Hanifin, the weirdest is that, because he has been in the league a long time, he is what he is. When the forum was discussing Valimaki last year and prior, many suggested we should trade Hanifin, because 'he is what he is', whereas Valimaki had lots of upside. When I and others pointed out that Hanifin is only one year older than Valimaki, the rebuttal was that Hanifin had already played lots of NHL games, and therefore he was done getting better.

One of the stupidest takes I've seen on here (which is saying something).

And now here we are a year or two later, and Hanifin is still improving (pro tip: everyone can improve). And yes here we are, with posters sticking with the 'long history of what he is'.

No, he is in the process of taking his game to another level. His play late last year (as Bingo pointed out), and this year (after a slow start), is the best hockey we have ever seen from him. The Hanifin we have seen in the last handful of games has been really good, arguably the best defenseman on the team.

First of all, I'm glad Hanifin is playing great right now. That said, I don't think it's a stupid take. Of course when you phrase something in absolutes like: "He is what he is", it oversimplifies the argument and makes it easier to refute.

A player's performance can vary from year to year, but it is far less likely for a player to drastically change his game and/or get much better after 500 NHL games. There are always exceptions to the rule, like Gio, but they are few and far between.

I'm still not sure what is Hanifin's game without Tanev. Because this year Hanifin - Weegar looked bad, and Hanifin - Andersson left a lot to be desired out of a first pairing. I also remember Hanifin's performance in the previous playoffs which left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Is Hanifin on a hot streak? Did he get better under Huska, and evolve his game? or is it Tanev bring out the best in Hanifin? I think it's still too early to tell.

At this point it would be difficult for me to justify paying Hanifin more than Toews(7.25). At the same time I'd take Hanifin over the likes of Werenski(9.6), Jones(9.5), Nurse(9.25), and Trouba(8) in a heart beat.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by looooob

he's from the McDavid/Eichel/Marner/Rantanen/Connor et al draft class. they may not be improving further, but I don't think league wide this is a cohort being dismissed as post/near prime?

Do you think those players' best years are ahead of them or happening now/behind them?

[Manhattanboy]

Hoping we can extend Hanifin. He’s playing great hockey.

Wish we could sign Tanev as well but unfortunately one of them seems likely to be moved.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Do you think those players' best years are ahead of them or happening now/behind them?

I've acknowledged I doubt any of them are really improving (although I could see an argument why the D might be the one with the most runway left) but I would consider that is a group of players that most fans and GMs would covet as in their prime as it gets- no doubt any of these will be in decline by year 7 or 8 of whatever contract they sign, but this is a list of NHL players in their absolute prime. so I guess happening now and the foreseeable future


I'm not sure our opinions are that far off honestly. I do think its an exciting age range for GMs (and different than Johnny or Kadri even Lindholm for example as UFAs)

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by looooob

I've acknowledged I doubt any of them are really improving (although I could see an argument why the D might be the one with the most runway left) but I would consider that is a group of players that most fans and GMs would covet as in their prime as it gets- no doubt any of these will be in decline by year 7 or 8 of whatever contract they sign, but this is a list of NHL players in their absolute prime. so I guess happening now and the foreseeable future


I'm not sure our opinions are that far off honestly. I do think its an exciting age range for GMs (and different than Johnny or Kadri even Lindholm for example as UFAs)

I think it's super exciting if they are willing to sign for 4 or fewer years. I was a huge fan of the Matthews deal for Toronto for that reason - they are not paying prime money for what will be subprime years.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

He's a defensively responsible 40pt dman who plays all situations and can eat minutes. He will be signed through his entire prime at a time when we expect the cap to go up significantly.

Let's look back at some minute munching 40-point Ds from eight years ago:

Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 28 years. 39 points. 38.1% possible ice time.
Jake Muzzin - 26 years. 40 points. 37.9% possible ice time.
Nick Leddy - 24 years. 40 points. 37% possible ice time.
Rasmus Ristolainen - 21 years. 40 points. 41.5% possible ice time.
Kevin Shattenkirk - 26 years. 44 points. 36.8% possible ice time.

Noah Hanifin - 27 years. 39 points (pace). 37.1% possible ice time.